Drilling hood pins

[Colossus]

Ive recently gotten a carbon fiber hood, and I want to install it. But, I've heard all these stories of hoods coming up on the highway and breaking off, etc. So, I've looked into and gotten a set of hood pins for my hood.

What's a good way to drill these holes? I've heard that if you do it wrong, the weaves can start to come undone and such. I take it I need some sort of sealant after the drill??

 

[TBSpyder]

Never heard of that, just use a good sharp drill bit.

 

[Davidle]

You have to do it right.. A buddy of mine drilled holes on his cf hood wrong, and after he installed on the hood pins, you can see some crack marks spreading away from the pins... It kinda looked like spider veins, ...

So make sure you do it right, or have somebody whose done it before, do it...

 

[theboogieman]

YOU WILL RUN THE RISK OF RUINING THE GEL COAT WITH A DRILL BIT! Got that? Sure, some might have done it with no problem but it is a risk. You can spider crack the gel coat. Just use a Dremel with a "tungsten bit" on it.
Listen, carbon fiber cuts EXACTLY like fiberglass. They basically have the same characteristics....cuts the same, sands the same, different strength obviously though.
Anyhow, that "bit" looks like a long cone shape and is covered with micro-teeth. Your best bet is to cover the spot your are making the hole with masking tape....draw the pattern or hole and then Dremel it out. Remove tape and you are done. Even a small hole and then make it as big as you need with a sanding drum on the Dremel. Use the tape though so you can follow the line/spot and to protect the surface of the hood while you cut
Leo

 

[Colossus]

So, using this type of dremel tip should prevent hood problems if I figure the area that I need to cut correctly, and tape off the surrounding area's?

 

[Defiant]

Boogieman is THE one to listen to on this. You're more grinding the hole than drilling it, and with the gel coat you have to run the line between tearing the fibers and melting the resin. Not that you need to _panic_ about it, but there are simple precautions -such as taping over the drill site (it gives just that little extra bit of strength to the surface as it's being cut so that cracking is much less likely to start)- that'll make great differences in how it comes out.
For sealing the edge, I'd think even clear paint would be enough, but I'm not an expert at this CF stuff, just some fiberglas experience.

 

[DSMTurbos]

i used a dremel like boogieman said

 

[theboogieman]

Yeh, look at wood when you try to use a bit bit first! Splinters usually. So you get that "toothy" grinding bit and use that unless you want to progressively go up in size with drill bits...I would just use a Dremel and tape the area. When I cut DIN slots in parts for AFC,VPCs,etc I just tape over the area and draw out the lines and follow with a dremel cutting disk followed by a sanding drum or whatever I need.
One other note, yes, maybe taking a bottle of "touch up" clear and painting right on the inside of the hole where you ground away would be good so moisture doesn't eventually soak into the fabric...it shouldn't but it is good to be safe.
Leo

 

[Colossus]

So. Put tape over the area I'm going to use the dremel on. Take a marker and make the makrs, or draw a circle of the area I plan on drilling. Go ahead and begin to use the dremel and drill/grind out the holes for the pins. Get like some clear coat or clearish spray stuff from wal-mart, and tape again over the area's I dont want the coat to get on. Spray it on, let it dry, then put the pins on. Then just leave it be?

 

[theboogieman]

exactly..realy simple. Put strips of masking tape all oiver the area you plan on drilling or cutting. Draw or trace your circle or hole and the grind it away.
Leo
...use "touch up" clear coat with the brush on the cap and just put some on the INSIDE of the hole you just ground away. SPRAY???Uh-hhhh, you do not need to get that invovled.
Leo

 

[LightningGSX]

They don't put gel coat on CF hoods , at least none that I have seen.I have put hood pins in a few CF and a ton of fiberglass hoods.The fastest, cleanest, and easiest way is to use a UNIBIT(the ones with the steps farther apart) or a spotweld cutter.Most decent hood pins have a piece that goes around the hole(to protect the paint from the pin) anyway.

 

[LightningGSX]

A sharp/new unibit that is.And if it does have gel coat I don't recommend using tape, most gel coats in use are less than high quality and peeling the tape off when done drilling or cutting does more damage than the drilling.

 

[Colossus]

Nah...my hood came with the usual clear coat on it. I'm gonna get it sprayed 1 or 2 more times just to prevent it from fading in the sun. I did get the hood mounted today, it looks good. A little to small width wise though...some gaps on the edges..gotta get that fixed. Damn R1 hoods...told'em I wanted friggen VIS.

 

[theboogieman]

Originally posted by LightningGSX
They don't put gel coat on CF hoods , at least none that I have seen.I have put hood pins in a few CF and a ton of fiberglass hoods.The fastest, cleanest, and easiest way is to use a UNIBIT(the ones with the steps farther apart) or a spotweld cutter.Most decent hood pins have a piece that goes around the hole(to protect the paint from the pin) anyway.

That is wrong. When doing mold work they spray a gel coat into the mold and let it go to partial cure and then start laying down fabric. If they did not use a GEL COAT you would get "print thru" and also have NO UV protection. The weave would basically be exsposed and deteriorate after awhile. Almost ALL industry standard gel coats have a UV inhibator in them and is used when molding. Sometimes on very small parts they MIGHT forego the gel....but highly unlikely if they are looking to acheive a quality product. Where you getting your hood?
The main comps like Fiber Images, DG Motorsports, VIS, Prostreet, etc all use a gel coat.
If you bought a hood that did not have a gel coat down as the top coat then something is seriously wrong. VERY, VERY few people make parts with out a protective gel coat. That is one of the first steps in molding parts...the gel coat. and it also serves as a protective layer over the mold surface.
And yeh, the uni-bit will work great also as long as you don't go jamming it down in a rush. (some folks have no patience)
Leo

 

[theboogieman]

...maybe you meant the don't put "clear coat" on the hoods...in which case you are correct, they don't. Clear and gel are 2 different things.
Leo

 

[LightningGSX]

I am aware of the difference between clear coat and gel coat.I haven't seen any that were any more than epoxy saturated CF.This is probably why alot of people have UV issues(on this forum and others).It is possible the hoods I have seen/dealt with are low quality(hence the lack of gel coat).I'm not trying to start any arguments here but gel coat isn't as common as you think(on CF that is).Because of the issues in bonding polyester gel coat and epoxy saturated carbon fiber(just a guess), unless polyester resin is used with the CF.What a hood advertiser considers gel coat could be debatable also.

 

[Colossus]

I figured Id just have a paint shop spray clear coat over the hood to protect it?

 

[theboogieman]

Originally posted by LightningGSX
I am aware of the difference between clear coat and gel coat.I haven't seen any that were any more than epoxy saturated CF.This is probably why alot of people have UV issues(on this forum and others).It is possible the hoods I have seen/dealt with are low quality(hence the lack of gel coat).I'm not trying to start any arguments here but gel coat isn't as common as you think(on CF that is).Because of the issues in bonding polyester gel coat and epoxy saturated carbon fiber(just a guess), unless polyester resin is used with the CF.What a hood advertiser considers gel coat could be debatable also.

I know your aren't trying to start an argument...we are just discussing...no worries...I am above that.
Maybe I should have said...."If done correctly any part that is molded whether it be a hood or any other part, it is general practice to spray a gel coat down first and then go from there." That is usually the correct way, but yes there are many different ways to acheive the same results. I personally know a few folks that do not use a gel coat first, but they are also vacumm bagging the parts so the laminate is sucked into the mold and void of any airbubbles and no gel coat is really needed. And if they have this part made for exterior use it is sprayed with clear, but this is not on anything commercial.
Personally, if I mold something, I spray a gel coat down first (big messy "dump" gun) and use VinyEster resin to laminate (seems more like epoxy the way it wets out better but bonds to the polyester gel coat). I never have luck with polyester for laminating, only for spraying gels. I hate polyester resins. I have worked with epoxies for so long I like it exclusively.
So I DO stand corrected on this, as you are more than likely right on what people are making out there. I have seen many hoods that were oxidized...but I just thought that the owner was a dweeb and not waxing or caring for it OR that perhaps the manufacturer used inferior gels and resins...plus you could see the weave print thru the surface...hmmmm?
Just everything I ever learned in making molds and pulling from them we always use a gel coat and i do just that when molding.
I know that Fiber Images and DG Motorsports spray a gel coat down first and then laminate onto that which is the proper way to do it. When I first started doing this stuff I use to call those 2 guys all the time and bug the hell outta them about their methods.
I should not speak about other products I am unsure of though. My ProStreet hood had a gel coat on it..unfortunately I can tell this by the way it is on the edges...but still a nice hood regardless.
Anyhow, thanks for at least bring to light that there are hoods out there made with no gel coat, I apologize, as I never owned one made that way out of the 2 I had. And really wasn't aware that they were made any other way. You would figure it would be done correctly and trust that it is and not going to oxidize or fade. If carbon fiber HAS NO UV PROTECTION it WILL break down the fibers and weaken the fabric causing it to get stress cracks and deteriorate in.
Leo