Absolutely no boost, new turbo.

[tec_41]

Well I just installed a new turbo after figuring out my oil feed problem...Now It was doing it with the last one too, so I thought it was just the turbo was bad. When I hit the gas (full throttle) I get NO boost, and a slow as piss car, even slower than it was NT. Any ideas?

Just installed an SAFC2 my buddy had lying around for the heck of it and the throttle position reading directly from the TPS only goes up to about 75% even if my foot is to the floor. Could this be the problem? I know the throttle is opening 100%, it's just not showing that. I thought the SAFC might need resetting like someone suggested on another thread...but please let me know if you guys have any ideas!

 

[rstare]

Is your throttle actually opening all the way when you have it floored, like visually check it.
Where is your boost gauge hooked up, to find out if the turbo is actually creating boost.
Also, do the obvious like check all your couplers and pipes, make sure it's all tightened down.
Hopefully it's not something in your intercooler... :/
The SAFC is useless for tuning while in boost on the 420a, just an fyi.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Check your wastegate and adjust your TPS.

 

[tec_41]

The SAFC is useless for tuning while in boost on the 420a, just an fyi.

Yeah yeah, heard it a million times ha ha

I've checked all those things- Did a boost leak test, no issues there. The butterfly valve is opening all the way, even when opened by hand it still reads no more than 75%. The boost guage is tapped off one of my lines from the back of the intake manifold, can't remember exactly...but it's been working fine since last summer. Keep the ideas coming though, thanks!

Piper- Wastegate's good, but what exactly do you mean by adjusting the TPS? I know how to adjust the set screw for idle but is there much more I can do? :S

I'm going to try resetting the SAFC quick per these instructions- http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420a-bolt-tech/315984-safc-throttle-position.html

but I'm almost positive it's not the issue. When I just tried revving it up right now it would rev to about 4k and kind of slow down (as if it were only at 3/4 throttle...hmmm)

 

[rstare]

Yeah yeah, heard it a million times ha ha

I've checked all those things- Did a boost leak test, no issues there. The butterfly valve is opening all the way, even when opened by hand it still reads no more than 75%. The boost guage is tapped off one of my lines from the back of the intake manifold, can't remember exactly...but it's been working fine since last summer. Keep the ideas coming though, thanks!

Piper- Wastegate's good, but what exactly do you mean by adjusting the TPS? I know how to adjust the set screw for idle but is there much more I can do? :S

I'm going to try resetting the SAFC quick per these instructions- http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420a-bolt-tech/315984-safc-throttle-position.html

but I'm almost positive it's not the issue. When I just tried revving it up right now it would rev to about 4k and kind of slow down (as if it were only at 3/4 throttle...hmmm)

Just checking, you'd be surprised how many people don't know how to search, and don't know about that.
I've been out of the DSM world for a while, but I don't remember being able to adjusting your TPS. Check the values for your TPS and see what it's actually telling the ECU. It should read .4v at idle, closed throttle, and 3.8v at WOT.

What is your boost gauge reading at WOT, under load?
Also, how have you checked your wastegate?

I don't think the SAFC is the issue here, honestly I would just remove it till you get this working. Unless you're using it to control bigger injectors under vacuum, then obviously that's not an option.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

I'd guess that the wastegate is blowing open. I'd put all my money on it, honestly.

 

[96_killer]

you should have goten the V6 Turbo

'98 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spider CONV

 

[GsXdSmKingGsX]

you should have goten the V6 Turbo

'98 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spider CONV

Oh good god

 

[tec_41]

The boost gauge doesn't even get to 0, maybe just for a split second but then it drops to maybe -5 or so.

I don't think it's the wastegate. I took it apart and checked the vac source to it, everything looked okay. Plus I have an open dump so if it was stuck open I'd surely hear it.

Took a volt meter to the TPS- .72v idle, 3.74 WOT.

V6killer- 12k miles....Standard V6!?! I'll take it! ha ha

Oh btw- SAFC is zero'd out, haven't even touched it yet.



EDIT:
I replaced the TPS, it didn't fix the problem. Still doing the same things- No power, can't rev past 5k, no CEL's

 

[tec_41]

I did a compression test today, the numbers are in my basement but they were about

1- 155
2- 170
3-175
4-180

So I'm going to rule that out as a potential problem for now.

I'm really at a loss right now...could it possibly be something with the timing components?



EDIT: I tested without the cat thinking it might have been plugged, but it didn't make a difference at all. I have my wideband working now and it doesn't seem excessively lean/rich.

 

[96TurboGS]

Any idea to why you're running a SAFC with a 12:1 FMU? The only time it will be useful is if you're running something like a SFMU to help lean out idle with bigger injectors. (That's about all there good for) Otherwise, who knows what effect it could have on your timing. I would double check your couplers/IC pipes, IC and the exhaust gasket for tears or rips, misalignment if your 100% sure there isn't anything wrong with your waste gate/pipes/gaskets. Since you just installed a new turbo it seems your loosing pressure somewhere. You can have a lean AFR and manage to build boost quite easy....

 

[tec_41]

Any idea to why you’re running a SAFC with a 12:1 FMU? The only time it will be useful is if you’re running something like a SFMU to help lean out idle with bigger injectors. (That’s about all there good for) Otherwise, who knows what effect it could have on your timing. I would double check your couplers/IC pipes, IC and the exhaust gasket for tears or rips, misalignment if your 100% sure there isn’t anything wrong with your waste gate/pipes/gaskets. Since you just installed a new turbo it seems your loosing pressure somewhere. You can have a lean AFR and manage to build boost quite easy....

Trust me, I know all about the opinions on SAFC's on our cars...like I said, my buddy had it lying around and I wanted to play with it to see if I can utilize it for anything. This is beside the point though, the car was having this issue before the SAFC 2. Plus it's not even connected right now.

I've triple checked with a boost leak test, everything's perfect. Exhaust gaskets are new and the bolts are tight. I had exhaust leaks with my first turbo setup that were just terrible, and it would still build boost ha ha. This turbo is doing the same thing as the second one that just died from lack of oil, so it's not something that went wrong with the install I know :S

I think the big thing is that I can't even get the engine to fully rev up, whether under load or not. To me this indicates a possible fuel delivery problem. I'm going to check my FMU the best I can and go from there.


Now that I think of it, I was driving on the highway one day and was boosting in 4th and the car just fell flat on it's face. Stopped boosting for a short period, had no power, then it picked back up after a few seconds of normal driving. This was before I had the oil issues, but what do you guys think this means?

 

[96TurboGS]

The boost gauge doesn't even get to 0, maybe just for a split second but then it drops to maybe -5 or so.

I can understand what you're saying but you said your vacuum gauge doesn't even register 1 psig. (And because of that I'm not sure you can blame that on the fuel system, unless its super lean, but then it would buck, studder, and possibly overheat.) What are your AFRs before entering boost? Do the turbine blades spin freely without any friction?

 

[Tanro]

you should have goten the V6 Turbo

'98 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spider CONV

That must be one of those special edition Eclipse GST Spyder VR4 with the engine and drive line from a 3KGT.

 

[johnmarines]

Have you checked your egr valve...a vacuum hose could have came off

 

[tec_41]

I can understand what you’re saying but you said your vacuum gauge doesn’t even register 1 psig. (And because of that I’m not sure you can blame that on the fuel system, unless its super lean, but then it would buck, studder, and possibly overheat.) What are your AFRs before entering boost? Do the turbine blades spin freely without any friction?

AFR at idle is 14-15, when accelerating maybe...I don't remember honestly, but I know it wasn't lean. I'll check again just to make sure.

And what I mean is I have vaccum (-15 to -18in/hg) but when accelerating WOT it won't even get to 0 unless going up a hill or something, let alone touch boost.

 

[tec_41]

Here's a quick video of what my car is doing. These are all WOT pulls, and when I rev it up my foot is to the floor. Notice how after a few seconds of WOT I start to creep into vacuum again...this is not right ha ha.

Yfrog - s8002059

I changed the fuel filter today for the heck of it, no difference. I'm starting to think maybe ECU...

 

[LD25Delta9]

Are you using silicone hose for your PCV valve? Or have you cleaned or replaced your PCV valve lately?
Shot in the dark I know.... I doubt that it's your ecu...you'd still create SOME kind of boost if your engine runs.... Pull your Downpipe from the turbo and spin the impeller and make sure that it's spinning on the other side, too...Another Shot in the dark, I know......

 

[Dewayne Waldron]

I've seen stranger shit happen when the ECU starts going out. Try to source out someone that will let you borrow an ecu just to rule out. Especially if you say there are absolutly no boost leaks. Something just isn't right here. Did you ever successfully hit boost with the previous turbo?
Check a vacuum diagram and make sure you hooked everything up correctly and that you didn't forget to run anything.

 

[rstare]

At WOT even at 4k rpms your turbo would still create boost, as long as you don't have some very large turbo.
Your fuel is fine, since you're not in boost, actually slightly rich. Although, I know the stock fuel map is rather conservative.
I'm still thinking this has something to do with your wastegate.
You say the SAFC is completely disconnected from your car? If it's not, I would do that. The less shit that could be screwing with your engine the easier to diagnose it will be.

 

[Dark DSM]

No matter if you have a piping problem or not, he should be able to rev all the way. Most definatly an electrical issue, (sensor malfunction, etc.) even with a new turbo he should be able to hit 7k. I had a similar problem, but it was my electronic FCD screwing with my map sensor, and what i did was flick the ignition (key) to on and off a few times and seemed to clear up. It was really f-ing weird buts that was my issue....

 

[96TurboGS]

Looks perfectly fine to me other than that boost leak. If there was something wrong with your cam/crank sensor you would experience misfires or you would have a CEL. (Usually) As I and others mentioned, you should be able to build boost under load/accelerating whether there is electrical problems or not. (as there isn't nothing like a rev limiter to stop you in the video, just a rich AFR making it sluggish) Your engine will be sluggish when you have AFR's of 12.0 or greater at open throttle with no boost, it (~100kpa) should be around 13.0 - 13.2 or so on a good tune. (But you cant tune a 12:1) So... as I've stated before you need to find where you're loosing pressure if the turbo is free of friction.

 

[tec_41]

Woo, so many replies...thanks!

Delta, the PCV hose isn't silicone but I had checked the valve. The ball inside of it moves around freely, but while I'm replacing little crap I could probably throw that on the list. The turbo is also good- Spins freely.

Dewayne- I did have the same issue with the last turbo. It worked for a while, but died quickly because my oil feed was plugged (doh!). When it was on it's last stretch of life after I fixed the oil feed, it was still doing the same thing as the new turbo I have is. It was still running like poop before I fixed my oil feed, too.

rstare- Yeah the SAFC is just sitting there now, disconnected. Is there an easy way to test the wastegate? Like disconnect the vac line and check to see is the valve is fully closed then see if it builds boost?

Dark_kid- My thoughts exactly. I've blown off couplers before, and I can still rev it up/run as if it were NA. It never dropped off into vac under full throttle like it is right now.

96turbo- I could hook up my boost leak tester, disconnect the compressor hose and walk away for 2 minutes and STILL have pressure in all of my piping . I know exactly what your saying, and I wish it was a boost leak. However, I don't think it's building boost because the engine simply isn't putting out enough power. It's like when you drive a turbo car at half throttle- You can get it up to 4-5k and still not be building boost AND it will drop off into vacuum. Only my car is doing all this under full throttle.


Keep the ideas coming! I really appreciate the help thus far

 

[rstare]

rstare- Yeah the SAFC is just sitting there now, disconnected. Is there an easy way to test the wastegate? Like disconnect the vac line and check to see is the valve is fully closed then see if it builds boost?

96turbo- I could hook up my boost leak tester, disconnect the compressor hose and walk away for 2 minutes and STILL have pressure in all of my piping . I know exactly what your saying, and I wish it was a boost leak. However, I don't think it's building boost because the engine simply isn't putting out enough power. It's like when you drive a turbo car at half throttle- You can get it up to 4-5k and still not be building boost AND it will drop off into vacuum. Only my car is doing all this under full throttle.

To be honest I'm not 100% sure how to test a wastegate... that sounds like a good idea, though (What you mentioned).
Did you assemble your wastegate? I would take it apart and look at it to make sure everything looks normal, if so, put it on and do what you suggested. Obviously, don't boost too much, because you'll have nothing to limit the boost. However, you should be able to build boost at partial throttle.

Building boost is all about load. That's why you can free rev the engine and not build any boost. Under certain conditions you can rev the engine up to 5k rpms and not build boost, provided your throttle position and other variables. That's what makes it seem like it has to do with the airflow somewhere. If you truely are at WOT throttle, whether you have an electrical problem or not, under WOT at 3k RPMs in any gear you should be building boost, that's where the issue is, to me, at least.
Something is either causing the turbo not to spin and create boost (wastegate, or perhaps some other blockage that I perhaps have overlooked), or the turbo is creating boost and you're losing it somewhere along the way. Which you say you're 100% sure is not the case.
Let me ask you this, after you let off the throttle (after going WOT, under load) do you hear your BOV?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

What does your boost gauge read when the car is turned off? It's a mechanical gauge, correct? I've had a few mechanical ones that sat at -5inHg with the engine off, and thus read 5inHg (~2.45psi) less than the actual vacuum/boost level. If all else checks out fine, it's safe to begin suspecting your test equipment.

What kind of wastegate do you have? If it's internal, it's more difficult to diagnose, but I suppose you could watch the actuator while a friend revs the engine once or twice. You're not likely to build very much boost that way, though.

I once had a Turbonetics Deltagate with a worn diaphragm, but that had the opposite effect; it would never open. The only way a wastegate could fail in such a way that no boost builds is if the spring were removed or broken. You can remove the dump tube/down pipe and apply pressure to the wastegate using a bicycle pump. It should open at whatever the spring is rated for, otherwise it'll open immediately.

If you can run the engine with the dump tube off, rev the engine once or twice. The exhaust pressure alone should be enough to open the wastegate if the spring is faulty.