Turbo Choices?

[AI_Eclipse]

Whats a better turbo for a 420A a Garrett T3/T4, or a Mitsu 16G? I am debating what to go with cause I am building my own kit. But not sure which would be better for my application. I plan on using a custom made manifold as well as a FMIC. I am also planning on only running 6-8 psi to start. I read up as much as I can but, as far as I can understand running externally gated is better. Correct? Which of these units come with that setup?
Thanks in advance.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Whats a better turbo for a 420A a Garrett T3/T4, or a Mitsu 16G? I am debating what to go with cause I am building my own kit. But not sure which would be better for my application. I plan on using a custom made manifold as well as a FMIC. I am also planning on only running 6-8 psi to start. I read up as much as I can but, as far as I can understand running externally gated is better. Correct? Which of these units come with that setup?
Thanks in advance.

The "T3/T4" and MHI 16G aren't really comparable. A 16G is a 16G is a 16G. T3/T4 hybrids, on the other hand, are made by a variety of different manufacturers, and so there is a relatively low degree of standardization among them.

I, having the 16G, obviously prefer that turbo to the T3/T4s, however, there is a strong argument that any T3 series turbo is more easily upgradeable than the MHI turbos. The T3 flange is much more universally used, so retrofitting a larger turbo later on down the road should be quite easy.

To avoid the hassle of sifting through the endless combinations of turbine/compressor wheels and manufacturers, I went with the 16G, though. It is a quite powerful turbo with plenty of potential. While my choices for upgrades are more limited, I don't ever see myself outflowing my next upgrade choice, the 20G.

If you do decide to get a T3/T4, make sure to buy one made by Garrett or a comparable manufacturer. Don't take the risk with an XSPower or similar turbo.

All 16Gs originally came with internal wastegates, although they are easily adapted for use with an external gate by simply welding the wastegate flapper shut. A significant portion of T3/T4s have internal wastegates, but there are also many that do not have them.


External wastegates are generally considered to be "superior" to internal wastegates, because they can usually flow more exhaust around the turbo, providing better boost control. Many people running high boost applications eventually report boost creep, which can be solved by either porting the internal wastegate hole or by using an external gate.

If you're planning on getting a custom manifold, you might as well go with an external set up - all you'd need to do is cut a hole and weld on the proper flange. From there you can run a pipe from the wastegate to the ground, or route that same pipe back into the downpipe.

An added advantage of having an external wastegate is that you can avoid having that characteristic goofy IC piping route with the high mounted silicone elbow coming off the compressor housing (no offense to anyone that has this configuration...).

 

[BigRand]

I"m linking you to a post that compares the two turbos found in the most common kits for our cars.

Hahn and Star turbokits.

You'll see the difference in the potential of the turbo's depending on what you have plan for your boosted 420a.

Street light to street light, or topend freeway. there are also a whole bunch of other factors affecting your choice of turbo but it all depends on how you drive your car.

http://students.washington.edu/randym4/dsm/hahn.vs.starguide.doc

 

[AI_Eclipse]

I'm the kinda guy that drives 5-10 miles over the speed limit almost always unless I'm rolling through a small town or busy area. And like most DSMers I would assume everytime I get the chance or tease of some random ricer, I punch it and wish I had more there. I don't beat my car but I do enjoy speed. I just wish it came on faster. Hence my move to go Turbo. Just trying to compare my choices. Cause I have a guy that will build me a custom kit, or I can go the Hahn/Star/JCWhitney Kit road. All make decent kits, but is it more cost effective to build my own if I can get a turbo and other parts from a Junkyard Gst/GSX/Tsi?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Build your own kit - you can obviously customize everything and you have the option to include only premium components, rather than some of the sub-standard ones in the kits.

 

[AI_Eclipse]

If I go the road of building my own kit what are some of the essentials that I want to make sure are quality.....Like the obvious turbo, FMIC, BOV, Wastegate, Injectors, Fuel Pump..... What kind of electronics do I need to start shopping for? IE: EMS, Piggyback system, Boost controller?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

You shouldn't need any electronics at first. For only 6-8 psi, a simple 12:1 FMU would take care of fuel, and an electronic boost controller would only help raise boost (you should be able to get 6-8 psi through basic wastegate adjustment).

 

[clipsit]

AI Eclipse...PM me and let me know if you need a 12:1 FMU...I have mine that was only used for a couple of months with my setup...so let me know...good luck on your kit...probably best to customize your own kit...much cheeper, depending on what products you use, but more than likely cheeper. If I could do it again...I'd go custom, but I am happy with my setup. Anyways...goodluck and let me know if you need that FMU or anyother guys like BigRand who may have some stuff laying around.

 

[Blitzeclips]

I would reccommend the custom kit route too. You can piece everything together after review and research on each item. Also, keep your eye on the classifieds and buy each piece one at a time if you need to. You can find parts cheap but in great conditon here and there. Put it this way, the past 8 months I have been pieceing mine together:
Super 20G turbo
3" Downpipe
All I/C Piping $700 package price from site member.
Manifold $150 on ebay
I/C $100 on ebay
HKS SSQ BOV $50 from my buddy

Altogether thats about $1000 for MOST of my kit. All I need is the fuel system and other gaskets ,lines, etc. But as you can see, I've had choice of the turbo, BOV, plumbing, downpipe (ready to bolt-on) and spent less then 1/2 the price of a turbo kit for HAhn or Star. Plus, these parts are either a stage above or quality is much better then kit items. Just my .02...

 

[AI_Eclipse]

thanks guys. I appreciate the help. I actually have a guy with a couple of upgraded stock turbos laying around his garage so I can choose which one I like best he also has a manifold for me I think. Is an upgraded stock turbo from a 95 Gst going to be good for me. or should I look for something new out of the box?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

The 95's have T-25 turbos in them, which aren't particularly known for their performance. If you're going to go turbo, I would recommend a T3 or T3/T4 (look for those made by Garrett, Turbonetics, AiResearch - none by XSPower or the like), a 14B (the stock turbos from the 89-94 M/T Eclipses/Talons), or a 16G (from Mitsu-Fuso Trucks; can usually be found in the classifieds or from the various site sponsors).

Like I said, the T-25 has a quick spool time, but isn't a great choice if you planning on running some serious boost in the future. Then again, a T-25 is better than no turbo at all, so it's all up to you...

 

[clipsit]

Then again, a T-25 is better than no turbo at all, so it's all up to you...

So TRUE...

 

[AI_Eclipse]

So I would probably be better off with a 16G....

 

[clipsit]

So I would probably be better off with a 16G....

If that's what works best with your budget...

 

[AI_Eclipse]

So I talked to my guy this weekend and he said he's got me a 16G and manifold...and is going to start checking out the compressor and stuff to make sure everything looks good.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

So I talked to my guy this weekend and he said he's got me a 16G and manifold...and is going to start checking out the compressor and stuff to make sure everything looks good.

Sounds good, let us know how it goes.

Out of curiosity, where did he get this manifold from? Did he have it "laying around," or has he fabricated it for you? Remember that a 4G63 manifold (from GS-T's and GSX's) won't fit on our 420A cars.

 

[AI_Eclipse]

Sounds good, let us know how it goes.

Out of curiosity, where did he get this manifold from? Did he have it "laying around," or has he fabricated it for you? Remember that a 4G63 manifold (from GS-T's and GSX's) won't fit on our 420A cars.

He fabricated it for someone else who was going to build thier own 420A kit like I am. The kid could not come up with all the money, so all the guy wants is what the kid still owed him for making the manifold. So I am getting quite a deal for a custom made manifold.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Ok ok, just making sure, because up until this point, you were only mentioning stock parts from 4G63 cars. Good luck with everything, post back here with updates.

 

[AI_Eclipse]

Damn! This project has just gone on hold for a few months. The guy who is building the kit, his 2 child was just born a couple days ago and now he is taking some time off for a little while which is cool, I'd do the same thing. But its actually good timing, because I got a hell of a deal on a new toy! So now I need to save some more money to keep this project going. Hopefully have an update on how things are going soon.

 

[XMasta19]

...well have fun with your new toy then.

 

[AI_Eclipse]

I couldn't help it! When someone dangles a 93 HD Sportster in front of you in great condition for 4500, especially when I've been wanting one since I was a kid on the back of my dads, I just had to. The sad part is 4500 could have finished my kit as well as some more go fast goodies for the car. Oh well not like I cant get more money if I really want it for the car. Hell you only live once. Might as well die in debt with a shit load of cars and other motor toys right?!?!