Motor Mounts

[FuriousEclipse]

ok first off. I HAVE SEARCHED THROUGH THE DAMN THREADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I am going to attempt this " Impossible" swap of the 420A-4G63T

What i want to know is what kinda modifications need to be done to the motor and transmission mounts, IE, the crossmember.
I also need to know about the drive axles and hubs, do they also need to be swapped out?

now for those of you who don't think this can be done or think its cheaper to put a turbo on my current motor, let me set you all straight.
I owe on the car still, blew the motor twice, as it sits now, i was goin to rebuild it all over with good parts, needs new head and rods. Thats upwards of 2K$ little to much for me right now. I can buy the entire donor vehicle with the 6bolt 4g63T in it for about 500$ which includes the main wiring harness and computer and all that i would need.


All i am looking for is some help from you guys with any knowledge on this matter that will help me, preferably about mounting the motor and trans the rest i know i could handle.

Any sites will help as well, i have checked dsmtalk.com and many seaches online in general through out the day so please lend some help here.
Everybody thought the famous L67 swap (3800 S/C) coundln't be done into a 1gn Grand prix but its done a lot now because somebody did it and made it work, thats what i am hoping for here. Just need the help from you guys when i need it

 

[TBSpyder]

I'm pretty sure the majority of the work is going to have to be custom fabricated. To make this swap successful, you're going to have to find a true dsm guru AND a shop that can custom fabricate all the extra goodies. If you have anything less than a vast knowledge of tuning and some really deep pockets...I seriously doubt you have a chacne in hell.

 

[FuriousEclipse]

if your not offering any help than simply don't reply to the damn thread man, i need to know how and what exactky needs this Custom fabrication you all speak of, if its just mounting the motor nd trans than obviously you all have to much money and are not willing to try this, just because on guy counldn't get it doesn't mean its "IMPOSSIBLE" me and some of my friends (who happen to be good at swaps) said if that the motor was offered in the car it will fit, all you need to do is fab the mounts, and you guys seem to be stuck on the fact of " it will cost 5-7K$ to have it done" well i don't know where you get these numbers from but you alll are obviously underskilled for the tuner world and you just slap on your parts and do minor mods, Thats great don't get me wrong i respect that of you guys. But it seems that when stuff like this comes up you all critisize more than you help. If a guy wants to waste his money as you all call it on doing this then let him find out the hard way> But if the guy is going to attempt the swap than offer him a little help on specifics and not tell him what he already heard a thousand times.

Like i said above i told you what i needed to know.

I am not trying to be a dick. I am trying to do something that nobody has done before. If it fails then it fails, but with a little help on some things maybe a guy could do this so it works. Then that guy can help out others with the swap. Thats how it went with the L67 swap.

The only big deal like i said was mounting the trans and motor.
Wiring up the stuff is what scares a lot of people away from swaps like these, its long and time consuming. But it can be done.

So again i will ask WHAT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED TO JUST MOUNT THE MOTOR AND TRANS INTO THE CAR. mounts, crossmember,drive axles hubs etc.

 

[dudasd]

So again i will ask WHAT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED TO JUST MOUNT THE MOTOR AND TRANS INTO THE CAR. mounts, crossmember,drive axles hubs etc.

You hit it right on the head. All of those need to be changed...as has been said many times, our cars are not Honda's we can't swap engines like friggin underwear...

Shall I quote from the last person that was as bold and all knowing as you and your friends?

"thanks....actually ive come to realize its the ONLY way to swap a 4g63 in is to just turn it into a gst, framewise that is"

You have read this right??

But since you said you read ALL of the threads.If that is the case then you read through the one where the kid had the same attitude as you and had all his ducks in line and everything else. In the end, the fabbing of the mounts didn't work out and he was stuck with having to swap out the entire front clip from the donor car, which in your case seems like a no go since I'm assuming the donor is a 1G. If that is the case then alot of the suspension parts and what not will not work. As far as the mounts go they will have to be custom fabbed, both tranny and I believe the drivers side. Honestly you come in asking a question for a project that has never been succesfully done, looking for things that not many have attempted. It's almost like asking a man born blind at birth to draw you a picture of a zebra...how in the ^%@$# is he to know what it looks like to draw it? I suggest you hunt down the kid that tried it before and had the mounts fabbed, think it was all in his posts as to what they attempted and go from there

 

[thehyena]

with the right amount of money you can make anything work

 

[TBSpyder]

Originally posted by dudasd
Honestly you come in asking a question for a project that has never been succesfully done, looking for things that not many have attempted. It's almost like asking a man born blind at birth to draw you a picture of a zebra...how in the ^%@$# is he to know what it looks like to draw it?

Exactly. The overwhelming majority of tuners on this site have never even ATTEMPTED this swap, let alone successfully...so what makes you think you're going to find the answers to your questions in here. If you want to be the one stray cat who actually pulls it of...you're going to have to be a pioneer, you're going to have write the book YOURSELF.

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by FuriousEclipse
if your not offering any help than simply don't reply to the damn thread man, i need to know how and what exactky needs this Custom fabrication you all speak of, if its just mounting the motor nd trans than obviously you all have to much money and are not willing to try this, just because on guy counldn't get it doesn't mean its "IMPOSSIBLE" me and some of my friends (who happen to be good at swaps) said if that the motor was offered in the car it will fit, all you need to do is fab the mounts, and you guys seem to be stuck on the fact of " it will cost 5-7K$ to have it done" well i don't know where you get these numbers from but you alll are obviously underskilled for the tuner world and you just slap on your parts and do minor mods, Thats great don't get me wrong i respect that of you guys. But it seems that when stuff like this comes up you all critisize more than you help. If a guy wants to waste his money as you all call it on doing this then let him find out the hard way> But if the guy is going to attempt the swap than offer him a little help on specifics and not tell him what he already heard a thousand times.

Like i said above i told you what i needed to know.

I am not trying to be a dick. I am trying to do something that nobody has done before. If it fails then it fails, but with a little help on some things maybe a guy could do this so it works. Then that guy can help out others with the swap. Thats how it went with the L67 swap.

The only big deal like i said was mounting the trans and motor.
Wiring up the stuff is what scares a lot of people away from swaps like these, its long and time consuming. But it can be done.

So again i will ask WHAT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED TO JUST MOUNT THE MOTOR AND TRANS INTO THE CAR. mounts, crossmember,drive axles hubs etc.

Well I guess this proves you don't have to try to be a dick to succeed. Like the guy's said above there is NOBODY that has been successful in doing this except one guy. He did it years ago and the car ended up catching fire it never ran right again. So If you want to try then go ahead and try, when you fail come back and tell us all about it. Basicly just open your hood and look at the engine bay, do you see it? Now take everything in it and rip it all out and start from scratch. That is what you have to do. The cross member won't work because the tranny is on the other side. Just trust me here you don't want to try this, it will be much cheaper to go another route. Also I don't think your bank is going to want you to modify their car to the point where it no longer works. The thing that really makes no sence to me is that "because you still owe money on it" you would rather go with a swap that has never been done and may very well render your car a useless chunck of yard art, rather than go with the tried and true proven alternatives. Could you please explain why that makes sence. Plus the wireing from a 1g will be even further off of what you need, the guage cluster that you will need won't fit etc,etc,etc. If you don't like our advise then stop posting and take it elsewhere, otherwise except that you are on your own here and forge a path for yourself. Finally don't come here insulting us esp. if you want our help. Face facts if you try this you are going to regret it and we will all say I told you so. Do this for me buy a shop manual for both cars and look at all the difference between each part then start really thinking about what you want to do.

 

[nine9rs]

honestly, i think the easier route would be to swap in a viper motor. i mean its the same thing as what you are trying to do. you just got to change every single part under the hood except maybe the battery.

if the point is trying to make ur car fast then go with a t-kit and rebuild.
if you say that you still owe money on it then how the hell did you expect to pay for all the fabrication and parts involved??

maybe you should have thought this through before you brought it up

 

[FuriousEclipse]

ok so then i see you all don't have the answers thats what i thought. now what are my options on rebuilding the dang 420A?? as far as new rods and all that, if i was to turbo that motor than what compression do i run? And where do i find a new head for a good price? As far as the bank goes for modifying my car, i have colateral so it doen't even matter. I just am looking for the cheapest route for getting the car up and running.

 

[dudasd]

Originally posted by FuriousEclipse
ok so then i see you all don't have the answers thats what i thought. now what are my options on rebuilding the dang 420A?? as far as new rods and all that, if i was to turbo that motor than what compression do i run? And where do i find a new head for a good price? As far as the bank goes for modifying my car, i have colateral so it doen't even matter. I just am looking for the cheapest route for getting the car up and running.

Short blocks
That'll be the easiest way to get the internals done. And then it's up to you if you wanna go with an HRC kit or Star kit to boost it...
As far as compression your gonna want to go 8.8:1 for a turbo engine....

 

[Talon ESI-T]

The 4g63 can be swapped in reletively painless if you have a donor 2g. I met a guy on ebay that did the swap and was selling all his 420a stuff. You will need all harnesses, he changed out the dash harnesses as well but i am pretty sure you do not have to. the dash harness appears to ahve all the plugs needed for the turbo harness and gauges.

your frame thoery..down the tubes. all you need to do is drill the spot welds on your old mounts and weld in the 4g63 mounts in the correct places.

obviously you will need the axles and trans ect. shift cables more than likely will need to be replaced, but you may get luck with those. the crossmenber needs to be changed as well. exhaust dp too.

Ecu obviously, a/c p/s lines are different. radiator is ok. all accesories with the motor are needed.

actual motor mounts are different.

need gauge cluster.

with a donor car you can do it in a weekend. i just need a donor now

i saw pictures of this guys work and he is not ful of it.

if your idea of welding mounts in cust fab work then you need to get out more. i know this thread is old but if you are still considering it i would love to help over the phone for guidance.

Terry

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by Talon ESI-T
The 4g63 can be swapped in reletively painless if you have a donor 2g. I met a guy on ebay that did the swap and was selling all his 420a stuff. You will need all harnesses, he changed out the dash harnesses as well but i am pretty sure you do not have to. the dash harness appears to ahve all the plugs needed for the turbo harness and gauges.

your frame thoery..down the tubes. all you need to do is drill the spot welds on your old mounts and weld in the 4g63 mounts in the correct places.

obviously you will need the axles and trans ect. shift cables more than likely will need to be replaced, but you may get luck with those. the crossmenber needs to be changed as well. exhaust dp too.

Ecu obviously, a/c p/s lines are different. radiator is ok. all accesories with the motor are needed.

actual motor mounts are different.

need gauge cluster.

with a donor car you can do it in a weekend. i just need a donor now

i saw pictures of this guys work and he is not ful of it.

if your idea of welding mounts in cust fab work then you need to get out more. i know this thread is old but if you are still considering it i would love to help over the phone for guidance.

Terry

I think someone lied to you brother. I once had a guy with an RS tell me he swapped in a 4g63 and blew it up so he put the 420a back in. Does that mean he was telling me the truth? Hell No. If I tell you I'm the president will you believe me? What a bunch of BS!! You can do it in a weekend huh? I had a hard time getting a 420a for 420a swap done in one weekend and I had all the air tools and everything. This is absolute crap, you would have to move every eingle line and wire in the car. I doubt you could even get all the stuff removed from ONE car in a weekend, let alone get it all into the other. I want to see these pics of this guy's work because I'm calling bullshit here and now. Plus you don't even know what your talking about, the Rad. will NOT work from one engine to the other, you will need new shifter cables cause the tranny is in a different spot, you will need All wireing from the other car for the whole system to work. I mean you are just full of crap, and people are going to beleve what you say here when it's not true. Once you provide me some proof here I will back down, but if it was so easy you could do it in a weekend then there would not be any turbo kits for the 420a because everyone would already be swaping in 4G63s. So get your doner car and post after your 1 weekend of work and let's see where you are. until then don't go around spreading false confidence without proof. I'm a big boy and I can admit when I'm wrong, so please prove me wrong with some pics of this.

 

[Talon ESI-T]

Granted i was a mechanic for 8 yrs, i can remove a 420a and the front suspension in 5 hours, i just did in a car a parted out. yes i have air tools and all the tools i own from when i was in the dealership but its not that hard. Every single wire was removed. this guy used all the harnessers from the car. when i parted out this gs the harnesses came out in 3 hours...all of them. these cars are really built pretty well. now using the dash harnesses is just my thought, i want to try and get a set of lower dash harneses and compare them to see. the worst part about the swap for some people is rewelding the mounts brackets in the subframe. the shiftercables and radiator..you are probably right, i didnt ask the guy for a full list of each part. He told me he used a full donor...2g to 2g he told me if i was going to do it by piece by piece then forget it. of course you will need all the mounts and o many small things is did not mention but it can be done. now an awd does require the fabrication of a bracket for the rear end, but there is already a writeup on that. i stripped a gs down to the floorboards and one quarter in 5 days while working a 40 hour week last week. i will take pictures this weekend. its not hard to strip a car of all the parts you need if you have the proper tools and experience. unfortunalty most people do not have a mechanics experience. I want to find someone willing to do this so i can do a writeup and prove it can be done. I am dsorry idf i made this seem easy, it is difficult but is not impossible.

I think your f*** you attitude is bull***t. you should try to be helpfull to others. you are right this is not something for someone to just jump into, it take a lot of preparation and the cost of a donor car. unless you get a rearended car you can forget it. a runnign 2g turbo gst will be 4000. +.

Mark my words if anyoen who has the tools i will fly out a couple of time to assist and do a writeup for the various boards this topic has been on.


Tell me somethng do you think a talon AWD can be made with two engines.....a front and rear. if you think thats bull**it you should log on to chicago dsm. a guy 15 mins from me has done it and it is a remarkable work of art. you can do anything you put your mind to.

I have restored a 69 superbee and built my own custom harley chopper. if my 420a was not my daily driver i would get a 2gt donor and prove it to you. considering your ignorance and attitude i will not discuss this with you anymore, anyone else, send me a personal mail and we can share info all day.

Terry

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by Talon ESI-T
Granted i was a mechanic for 8 yrs, i can remove a 420a and the front suspension in 5 hours, i just did in a car a parted out. yes i have air tools and all the tools i own from when i was in the dealership but its not that hard. Every single wire was removed. this guy used all the harnessers from the car. when i parted out this gs the harnesses came out in 3 hours...all of them. these cars are really built pretty well. now using the dash harnesses is just my thought, i want to try and get a set of lower dash harneses and compare them to see. the worst part about the swap for some people is rewelding the mounts brackets in the subframe. the shiftercables and radiator..you are probably right, i didnt ask the guy for a full list of each part. He told me he used a full donor...2g to 2g he told me if i was going to do it by piece by piece then forget it. of course you will need all the mounts and o many small things is did not mention but it can be done. now an awd does require the fabrication of a bracket for the rear end, but there is already a writeup on that. i stripped a gs down to the floorboards and one quarter in 5 days while working a 40 hour week last week. i will take pictures this weekend. its not hard to strip a car of all the parts you need if you have the proper tools and experience. unfortunalty most people do not have a mechanics experience. I want to find someone willing to do this so i can do a writeup and prove it can be done. I am dsorry idf i made this seem easy, it is difficult but is not impossible.

I think your f*** you attitude is bull***t. you should try to be helpfull to others. you are right this is not something for someone to just jump into, it take a lot of preparation and the cost of a donor car. unless you get a rearended car you can forget it. a runnign 2g turbo gst will be 4000. +.

Mark my words if anyoen who has the tools i will fly out a couple of time to assist and do a writeup for the various boards this topic has been on.


Tell me somethng do you think a talon AWD can be made with two engines.....a front and rear. if you think thats bull**it you should log on to chicago dsm. a guy 15 mins from me has done it and it is a remarkable work of art. you can do anything you put your mind to.

I have restored a 69 superbee and built my own custom harley chopper. if my 420a was not my daily driver i would get a 2gt donor and prove it to you. considering your ignorance and attitude i will not discuss this with you anymore, anyone else, send me a personal mail and we can share info all day.

Terry

Now this is more like it Terry. You have to realize that I have seen it time and again people comming on a board and talking the way you did, only to lead themselves and others down a long hard path. If you have the experience to do this I think it's great, and if you can get a write up done and make it work then more power to you. So does this other guy have some pics you can share of this car, I would really like to see it. I have seen the twin engine car before and it is pretty cool, not my cup of tea but still a really cool car. Where is the write up for making the AWD driveline work I know they have done that for GST's but I did not know they had one for the 420a, I would love to see it. I understand you didn't look at all the parts to see how they compare, which is why i was wondering you were so sure it could be doe in a weekend. I know it's not hard to strip cars either Terry I have done it before as well, but I think you could agree that your average person on this board could not complete anything like this in a weekend. As for my attitude it was not ment as an F you attitude, more of an f that attitude, because most people can't do this at all let alone in a weekend, so my post was ment to help people who may believe from your post that this is something really easy to achieve in a couple of days. It was nothing personal. You said yourself that it's not something people can just jump into. Also I know that people can do anything they put their minds too, how do you think we have cars in the first place, anything is possible, but that dosn't mean it's easy or cost effective, I have never said this was impossible, just not worth it. I mean not do you have to move componets in the bay, but you would also have to move stuff on the inside of the car to get all the plumming correct. This was not a personal attack on you or a questioning of your skills, more of just shooting down the idea that this is really easy to do, because if we protray it as a "weekend job" there will be a lot of people trying it and having some real problems. Terry I really hope you can pioneer this and get a really good write up on the table for us all to follow, you could start with the pic's of the other guy's work and maybe some more details. Now one barb I must throw back at you though is your comment about my "ignorance and attitude". I find it funny that the person with more knowledge of what must be done and what parts must be switched ends up being the ignorant one, don't you? I must also again say that my attitude twards this topic is well deserved (see my answer above to the attitude comment). There is only one known person who has done this swap, and if you check a few posts back you will see what happend to the car. I will close by saying again that I am a big boy and can admit when I'm wrong and I hope that I am so please get some pics of the other guy's stuff so we can all see it. I do find it hard to believe though that if all you needed was a mechanics experience and a doner car, that more shops like Mach 5 and other places are not doing it, as they would make a KILLING. Maybe they know something we don't. Again Terry I'm not trying to bash you here I hope that it can be done.