Total Seal piston rings? [Merged 5-7] ring gapless

[4G63luvr]

Who has or had Total Seal piston rings? If you know anything about them how much nitrous can they handle and is it safe to eliminate the middle ring because the top ring seals so efficiently? Doesn't sound safe to me for saving 7 grams of weight.

 

[dudasd]

Everything I have heard, it's a love/hate thing. Some people swear by them, while others say they do more harm than good. It's up to you if you wanna go with them, but you'll get a 50/50 split of yeas and nays as to how good they are.....

 

[NA All The Way]

I have a set of totalseal rings in my car and I am running 12:1 compresion and the car runs great. And as far as leaving out the second ring well thats just not a good idea.

 

[4G63luvr]

Thanks, too late, they're already in, I'm putting the engine in this week, Your right though, I did just hear they have been know to seal soo well that the vaccuum pressure is increased way overboard and suck oil up through the pcv valve (not cool) Thanks,
Chris

 

[Maglin]

I'm going to be building a bullet proof motor in the very near future and I haven't seen anything mentioned about Total Seal or Zero Gap rings.. I was wanting to know if they are worth the extra expense on our cars? I'm building a stroked 4G63 2.3L. I'm planing on running about 19-21 PSI of boost on the street and 30 PSI of Boost at the track on race gas... With that much compression inside the cylinders I'm thinking that these rings would definitly benifit. Anyone useing them? Are they even available for our cars???

This is the engine I'm going to be building.
4G63 6 bolt
100mm Crank
Weisco Forged 9:1 or 8.5:1 Pistons (haven't decided yet)
Eagle Rods w/ ARP waveloc Bolts
ARP Main Studs

And going to force feed this with a FP3052...

Thanks

 

[modifyer]

Total seal does make a few combinations of ring sets for our cars . I have not used them in a dsm yet but I have used them in many v-8s for both street and race use . There is quite a large debate regarding these rings when used in the 2nd grove many engineers suggest that because they seal so well that at high speed they unseat the top ring because pressure is built up between the ring land and the ring . Others feel that although this problem can occur it is not an issue until extremely high piston travel speeds are reached . In my experience I have never noticed a power loss using total seal rings and some of the people I have built engines for using these rings now insist that they be installed in their engines . Total seal has an execellant "tech" department , I don't have their site or email address handy but I suggest you contact them . They also now produce a gapless top ring probably to address the controversy I previously stated but I have no experience with these rings as they are relatively new .

 

[Defiant]

I haven't seen anything mentioned about Total Seal or Zero Gap rings..

That's really pretty much your answer. There aren't many DSM Secrets left to be discovered.

 

[gasguzzler]

If the top ring does its job, there should be no reason to have a gapless ring.

 

[Maglin]

In my engine build I'm looking to get every last HP I can out of it and keeping all the pressure on the top end is one way......

 

[Defiant]

In my engine build I'm looking to get every last HP I can out of it and keeping all the pressure on the top end is one way......

Yeah. And gas-porting the ring grooves, and running a vacuum on the cranckase, and a dry sump and....

Your car's gonna be fast enough. It'll never be fastest.

 

[modifyer]

The roundest bores you can get will give the best ring seal . Using a torque plate when boring and finish honing the cylinders is very beneficial in this regard . The aurgument whether Total seal or conventional rings are better will continue for as long as we are allowed to have opinions . Many engine builders use them regardless of whether or not anyone here is talking about them.

 

[silverbulletAWD]

For what it's worth. I ran zero gaps in my silver car last season and I switched back to standard rings for this year. All I can say is that when I put them in everyone around here said I was crazy but I had to try them anyways. I was warned about increased cylinder wear and I was even told stories about ring lands being blown right out of pistons in high-boost motors. I didn't really notice any unusual wear patterns when I tore the motor down this winter but it only had 1,600 miles on it. All of those miles were very hard and boosted miles mind you. I can tell you I saw some very high compression tests all season at 195psi. across the board I was impressed, and it stayed about right there the whole time.

The only real reason why I tore my engine down this winter was to get rid of these rings so I can't really recommend them to anyone. IMHO, these rings are better left in NA motors and reserved for the guys who run spec. classes and need to take every HP they can get. To possibly add some clout to my opinion I should tell you that Jon and Ming at TRE were some of the most strongly opposed to these ring of anyone I talked to.

If your running around 20psi and going through your engine alot you could merit from these rings but I'm going to be running 30psi on 2g pistons this year and I can't guess what's going to break first but I know I dont what it to be ring lands.

If you must have these rings, I got mine last year from Summit for $120 and that was the best price I found at the time.

Just my 2 cents.

Andy

 

[JAYTEE]

Hi guys,
For specific use of Total Seal Gapless rings with all the pros and cons, contact
Keith at Total Seal. He has forgotten more about this specific part than most of us
will ever know. At high boost levels the top ring is the gapless one, not the second
ring. Further, for high boost levels, the moly rings are unsatisfactory, as it is easily
"blown" off the face of the ring under high temps and boost. Keith is the man to talk
to.

 

[spoolints04]

Only bad thing (if it's a bad thing) I have to say about mine is I have to pull the sparkplugs to turn the motor over by hand. The compression never bleeds off.

 

[MNGSX]

I dont like them due to the overlap of the ring.. Yes it is gapless but the since the ends are touching they just don't have the same ease of movement in regards to heat expansion.

File fit rings on cast or hot forged pistons hold compression really well too..

 

[ClipseT96]

I've got the total seal rigns and they seem to be working fine. I had the motor built completly. I say go for it, for what your wanting to do.

 

[boostedinaz]

Car Craft, one of the best mag's ever, did a test on three different ring sets in the same motor and did compression test and leak down test with all three sets. The gapless had alot better numers all the way across the board. They tested stock unfiled rings, and aftermarket filed to fit ring set, and an off the shelf gapless ringset. I believe that the gapless had about 3% leakdown and that only dropped to 5% after a bunch of dyno pulls.

Michael

 

[Geo2g]

Ok I recently built my motor with eagle H beams and J&E pistons. After about 1000 miles I started to hear what I believed was the bottom end knocking. So I pulled the pan but find nothing. I pull the head and find that the pistons move a bit in the cylinders. So Piston slap seems to be my problem. So before machining a new block are there piston rings that I can purchase that will take up some space. Or rings that totally seal the piston to cylinder.

 

[Defiant]

I don't know how you'd confuse rod knock with piston slap, and I hope you didn't take the thing apart because of lifter tap. If they're still there, you may well have a balance shaft bearing knocking.
Rings have nothing to do with piston slap. As for Total Seal rings, do a search.

 

[wyominghotwheel]

i agree with defiant.........i also believe you will find that the total seal ring's are pretty awesome when it come's to boosted engines. I know several people that have those rings and they love em...................hotwheels of turborides

 

[qtxdevilz]

i actually heard alot of people had problems with there total seal rings...

 

[evil_eagle]

piston slap is caused by cylinder to wall clearance, nothing to do with rings, yeah the rings have some do with it, but by just honing the motor you have now with new rings will not get rid of your piston slap.

My ross pistons I went .0045 piston to wall clearance and have no piston slap at all, not even in 20 degree weather on a cold start up

ring gap I gapped mine at 19 and 20

So when you bore and hone your block get the right piston to wall clearance and you will be good to go. Not sure what the specs are for the JE pistons, call them and ask them what the clearance should be. Ross comes with a spec sheet with turbo, non turbo, turbo and nitrous applications. They called for .007 piston to wall clearance with turbo nitrous application, I thought that was way too loose for me, so I went with .0045 and have not had any issues to this day. 3000 miles on the motor and it is silent as hell, shit my alternator is louder then my motor is .
-Jake

 

[joeracer321]

I had total seal rings on the last 302 I built. I will never use them again, stick with file to fit rings and you are good to go. DON'T USE PRE SIZED RINGS, THEY ARE OFF... ALWAYS!!! It is much more precise for you to do one at a time each set of rings for each cylinder.

 

[1LE]

I don't know how you'd confuse rod knock with piston slap

I do They sound the same to me! My mechanic on the otherhand says that piston slap can be distinguised by a kind of "quick double" to the sound whereas rod knock is a single sound... Beats me, they both sound the same as far as I'm concerned!

 

[inspector-111]

O.K., I'm S T I L L in the very slow process of rebuilding my engine, and would like to know if the "Total Seal" piston rings would be a wise upgrade? Or are these not well suited to turbo applications?

Thanks for any input.

Chris.