Modifications for More N/A Power

[dstarM]

other than slapping a turbo onto my 420a engine, what else can I do to gain horsepower?

my goal (if possible) is to reach 200hp+ non-turbocharged

if anyone has something let me know thanks!

 

[GTOJohnny67]

Well start with the basics, Intake, and exhaust. Then look for a set of cams. I personal like nitrious.

 

[dstarM]

Well start with the basics, Intake, and exhaust. Then look for a set of cams. I personal like nitrious.

if i were to get bigger injectors and a new intake manifold will that add horsepower?

 

[RadDsm]

If you are looking to make 200whp with no power adders, that is very hard to do. I think the record is 213whp.

Are you against a turbo or n2o? Those are going to be the easiest and cheapest way to make power.

 

[dstarM]

If you are looking to make 200whp with no power adders, that is very hard to do. I think the record is 213whp.

Are you against a turbo or n2o? Those are going to be the easiest and cheapest way to make power.

no i'm def. not against turbo, i dont care for n2o though, but i just want to see if it can be done :] if so i would like to make it happen

 

[Fotowntalon]

not be a dick, but this subject has been covered numerous times, not to mention Tech Guide: 2G 420A Power Upgrades - DSMtuners
realistically to hit 200whp naturally aspirated is gonna be around 7grandish (give or take depending on if you can do the work or not), as opposed to just slapping on a turbo, not trying to scare you away, just need to keep a realistic mindset. Like these guys said, record right now is 213whp for a naturally aspirated set-up

 

[GTOJohnny67]

if i were to get bigger injectors and a new intake manifold will that add horsepower?

Well the basic rule is more air + More Fuel= more power. I would still think you'd need cams to make the injectors worth having. Plus you'll need something to tune them with. Like Mega Squirt.

 

[Fotowntalon]

careful on the intake manifold, they are ridiculously expensive for how little they do, your best bet for gains are to get your current IM ported or to get a custom one made, there is a guy on this site is does amazing ones. You wont need bigger injectors for a N/A set-up

 

[GTOJohnny67]

careful on the intake manifold, they are ridiculously expensive for how little they do, your best bet for gains are to get your current IM ported or to get a custom one made, there is a guy on this site is does amazing ones. You wont need bigger injectors for a N/A set-up

Judging from Fotowntalon's profile he's got his sh!t together on the N/T's. I'g go by what he's saying.

 

[Locke]

You wont need bigger injectors for a N/A set-up

Most people won't, any-ways. Bullett is using 450cc DSM injectors in his insane NT racecar. Off the top of my head, I don't think he needed them until he was within spitting distance of 200whp, and to my knowledge he has the only NT 420a DSM that requires larger than factory injectors.

 

[Fotowntalon]

locke, you think it would be safe to say, for NA application anyways, that you arnt gonna hit 200whp unless you got a dedicated race car?

 

[Diamondrev]

other than slapping a turbo onto my 420a engine, what else can I do to gain horsepower?

my goal (if possible) is to reach 200hp+ non-turbocharged

if anyone has something let me know thanks!

Yes it is possible.. but its expensive. like everyone else said, Bullet has the most powerful NA at 213hp (13.2 1/4 mile). BUT he didnt just bolt-on stuff to get him there. Im sure he spent hours tuning and Researching.

I would suggest research on this site about going turbo. its your best bet. Nitrous is a pain. I had it and most of the time my bottle was empty. I hated refilling it every week and its also more dangerous for your engine if you dont know what your doing.

Or you can do what every 2gnt'er loves to hear! sell your car and buy a factory turbo car. Fast right from the factory. Really no mods needed unless you want to go even faster.

Here is a link that I love to throw out on this site from time to time. What you can expect from basic bolt-ons and it also shows you how hard bullet has worked for all his HP gains...

1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS - Power Pages - Import Tuner magazine

 

[Locke]

locke, you think it would be safe to say, for NA application anyways, that you arnt gonna hit 200whp unless you got a dedicated race car?

I wouldn't say that is set in stone. You've seen Bullett's car, or seen my Youtube vid's of it, yeah?

The head work he needed to do to get the car to reach 200+whp is highly detrimental to low end torque. C3 cams with a lot of overlap and aggressive port work mechanically limit the motor's ability to make power where it would be usable in a proper street car. His IM and LTH also serve to add power up high at the expense of low end torque.

Another contributing factor to Bullett's lack of streetability with that motor is it's tune. He has very little tuning under his power-band, enough likely to just keep itself running without fouling things up. In Bullett's defense, of course, this is a race car, and he doesn't race outside his power-band. I'm sure some low-end power could be gained with more time and money invested in tuning those areas of the tables, but it won't overcome the low-end mechanical limitations of the build.



So, in short, you could street anything you'd like, if you can tolerate things like the potential for stalling under load at 2000rpm, and that sort. 200+ NA builds can be more tame than Bullett's, but I am doubtful that it could be tamed enough that I, personally, would ever want to drive it in city traffic.

 

[Fotowntalon]

I just want to say I hope we didnt scare you off, and thats diffidently not our goal. There are a lot of us that loving modding the 420a while staying NA, we just want you to be aware of what you are getting yourself into before you spend the money on something that you may not be happy with.

 

[bullettdsm]

The head work he needed to do to get the car to reach 200+whp is highly detrimental to low end torque. C3 cams with a lot of overlap and aggressive port work mechanically limit the motor's ability to make power where it would be usable in a proper street car. His IM and LTH also serve to add power up high at the expense of low end torque.

Another contributing factor to Bullett's lack of streetability with that motor is it's tune. He has very little tuning under his power-band, enough likely to just keep itself running without fouling things up. In Bullett's defense, of course, this is a race car, and he doesn't race outside his power-band. I'm sure some low-end power could be gained with more time and money invested in tuning those areas of the tables, but it won't overcome the low-end mechanical limitations of the build.

^^^See why I hate this guy? He's right even when he's speaking for me

Everything Locke posted is correct (even the part about getting a little tune for down low. I could get a little more low end, but I honestly don't care about that area, .).

Now, my car as a daily driver was able to run 13.9 in the quarter. (My definition of a daily driver; I could hop in my car at any time and drive 500 miles comfortably with the radio on and the heat blasting (with regular 93 octane)). I honestly can't remember the whp level, but I'm thinking that was right around 175whpish.

So if you ask me what's the most important thing to change (as if there was just one thing to change. Its all about the way the parts complement each other), I would say the ECU will be the biggest obstacle to overcome.

If you want to go down that route, you will need to do a bit of searching on MSnS (Megasquirt) or AFX/ECU (Howell race ECU).

MB

 

[Achelea]

I now it's a terrible thing to say. But I say go ahead and see what you can do with your motor. Personally I kind of want to tune a NT motor and hook it up to an AWD drivetrain. Not this car, but another one later on.

 

[mrTalonAWD95]

the awd would slow the n/t down more than it would help it out of the hole.

 

[NeMiZiS]

I wouldn't say that is set in stone. You've seen Bullett's car, or seen my Youtube vid's of it, yeah?

I haven't seen these videos!

 

[roLo2g]

This post helped me out a lot. I was thinking of a way to keep my N/A without adding such boost like Turbo, Super Charged, or N20. But he asked if he could make an N/A reaching to 200hp+. That's him, i actually just wanted to add about 40hp+ to my 140hp making it 180hp+. Would that be possible? I've already added basic bolt-ons, DC 4-2-1 Headers w/ custom 2"1/4 piping w/ muffler, and a Injen Short-Ram intake. What else could i add little more HP keeping my N/A on? i have done my research but i would like to know which is more effective and which is preferable, or any favored parts out there for a 420a N/A?

 

[nothingfiction]

Cams will help get you so much closer to where your wanting. there is 2 options. Crower or Crane. Just find the package that compliments what you are trying to succeed. to add to that, cam gears can help too (only if you tune them properly with a dyno). Do not, i repeat DO NOT try to tune adjustable cam gears without the proper tuning hardware. there is no set in stone diagram to follow to adjust them to cheat off of. it all depends on your car, what mods you have, what you engine condition is, ect. So many different variables. Do not attempt to adjust them yourself.

 

[Fotowntalon]

Look at me or bullets profiles and go from there
Nah seriously (not that that isnt good advice but) in a month or two i will be getting cam gears, and a piggyback tuning th piggyback, and tuning in the cam gears and will have dyno numbers then, i am hoping (and shouldn't be to far off from) 180hp, or around their.

From where you are at it depends on your patients, and mechanical skill. The most cost effective, and least time consuming is to save save and then save some more money. Then when you have enough do you whole head and pulleys at once. By that i mean Port and polish your head, put new cams and cam gears in with a spring and retainer set, and do your under-drive puller, all those will go hand and hand with installation (while doing that do basic maintenance, head gasket, timing belt etc.)

Until then some little things you can do is upgrade your throttle body to either a 55mm or a 60mm 9do your search on that for pros and cons) and port your Intake manifold to match. Also maybe invest in a crank-scraper, polyurethane motor mounts and possibly upgrading your radiator in the meantime. Those are some smaller cheaper upgrades.

Now would also be a good time to start reading up/researching on looking up tuning routes (afx/MSnS) This should help ya get started, hope it helps

Do not, i repeat DO NOT try to tune adjustable cam gears without the proper tuning hardware.

Just to clarify this some for you, there is a difference in tuning (and adjusting the timing of) cam gear timing, ignition timing, and A/F ratio.

 

[nothingfiction]

Look at me or bullets profiles and go from there
Nah seriously (not that that isnt good advice but) in a month or two i will be getting cam gears, and a piggyback tuning th piggyback, and tuning in the cam gears and will have dyno numbers then, i am hoping (and shouldn't be to far off from) 180hp, or around their.

Now would also be a good time to start reading up/researching on looking up tuning routes (afx/MSnS) This should help ya get started, hope it helps

Piggybacking a piggyback... i have been wondering about doing something like this for a while now. And idea if it is possible to piggyback the afx ecu with megasquirt? i don't see why not. But thought i would ask.

 

[Fotowntalon]

wow i messed that up , hate when i am typing and thinking and things just run together. Meant to say, buying a piggyback. Having the piggyback installed and tuned. As to the MSnS and afx question, i talked to bullet, and you can piggyback the AFX. The afx is pretty accurate, but the piggyback being dyno tuned should make it spot on. As for piggybacking the MSnS, i don't think their is any need to. The MSnS will give you the ability to tune in your A/F.

From my understanding the MSnS is the mother of all tunings for our engines. So if you go the MSnS route, save yourself some money and stick with your stock ecu.

 

[DashLaflash]

If you're going all motor I would say 2.4L is the only way to go. Get a 2.4l bottom end from a cloud car or whatever will bolt up to the 420a head and get some 12.5:1 compression pistons and forged rods. Get some high profile cams like the 272/272 combo and adjustable cam gears. Get a 3" exhaust, and most important a good tune and you might make some power. This seems to work for the honda guys running all motor k24/k20 set ups.

 

[roLo2g]

Thanks guys! i pretty much know the basic mechanics, and if not ill have my friend help me out. CAMS! do sound really good! but i don't think it is legal on the street (anymore). 8( i would like to get cams! for sure! but if i did get cam's would i be able to put on the cover from the STOCK cams? so if i ever had to do a smog or got pulled over and pop'd the hood. CAM's was my next mod for my N/A but i do live in California and how much it sucks couse most MOD's you do to ## car are ALL LEGAL IN 49states but the last one is CALIFORNIA. Asides from CAM's any other suggestions?