No Spark Starting to think ECU since its a 95

[Jordan1083]

ok first i want to say ive looked at every no spark thread on here and have not found and answer.
lets start with my engine
420a with hrc turbo kit and portfueler msd dis II ignition

now the problem and details
Absolutly no spark what so ever. i have power to the coil but i am not getting a trigger signal from the ECU. i have backtraced the wires and conducted a continuity test on the coil trigger wires to the ecu and from the Crank sensor and the cam sensor to the ecu now both of these sensors are new and the car ran for about 150 miles then the next morning i went to start it and it cranked but didnt start when it finally did it was missing like crazy the msd control box was showing a irradic trigger signal fault about an hour later it would not start and hasnt since thats been about two weeks ago. ive replaced the coil even thought i didnt think that was the problem and conducted mutiple tests to check the wiring harness but everything has passed the mitsu dealer told me they cant check the ecu without the car and i dont know anyone with a 95 eclipse. the only thing i can think of that i dont know how or where it is to check is this asd relay the hans manual shows it on the firewall near the battery along with two other relays but i only have two realys there and they dont match the connector diagram that the book shows so i dont know how the heck to check them if anyone knows please let me know i will provide any info i have left out of this post.

also after attempting to start the car i can smell fuel and the fuel pressure at my regulator is staying constant (and rebuild pressure after i released the pressure from the fuel rail) im getting fuel just not spark. which makes me think its not the asd relay unless there are two relays built into the unit and only half of its not working

 

[Jordan1083]

UPDATE:
checked all the wiring for the crank and cam sensors (had to put a new connector in when i replaced them) all the wiring checks out both sensors have the power and ground and both are putting out a signal on the singnal wires although i went ahead and changed the crank sensor again because the last one was giving a solid 4.9 volts on the sensor wire the new one only puts out around .2 - .3 volts on the sensor wire sitll no spark i did notice the fuel pump kick on when i plugged the crank sensor in im not really sure what is causing this its kinda random when i hear it kick on but my fuel pressure is remainin constant. every time i walk away from the car for the night i keep getting this feeling that its my ECU i really dont want to buy this thing for it not to be the problem

ok im reading diffrent posts on 2gnt and here that the 5volt refrence wire on the crank and cam sensors is used by other sensors and that if one of those sensors are grounded it will cause a no spark condition. which sensors use this refrence signal ive see the vechicle speed sensor and i think the speedometer or maybe it was the vss again but are there anyother sensors on this circuit the wireing diagram isnt much help here since i can only look at it a peice at a time

 

[VelocitàPaola]

VSS, CPS and CAS all use +8V. MAP and TPS use +5V.

I assume your car worked properly with the HRC kit and DIS-II, yes? In other words, these aren't new modifications, are they?

 

[Jordan1083]

no the car ran fine for close to 200 miles with the setup i have now. the next morning i woke up went to take the car to a dyno and the d*&n thing would not start..then when it did it missed like crazy(only started twice) thats when i got the trouble code from the msd ignition about irradic trigger signal. about an hour later it would not start and has yet to start since

also unpluged the vss and checked to see if the car would get spark no luck which is why im posting because im out of ideas. gonna try to track the Yellow wire and see which sensors it goes too tomorrow and double check to see if i have injector pulse (assumed i did when i smelled fuel after removing a spark plug but who knows anymore)

31may2009
tried to unplug the knock sensor still no start theres another sensor thats back there not sure what it is tried it too no luck. i checked to see if i have injector pulse i get an initial voltage when cranking but then it tappers off to .001 and stays put no matter how long i crank it. gonna go double check my voltage at my crank and cam sensors...im really running out of ideas here

ok due to the lack of ideas ive ordered an ECU gonna try it and return it the same day if it does not fix my problem which im not holding my breath because nothing else has worked so far. supposed to be here on the tuesday

 

[Jordan1083]

got the new ecu installed it and nothing

i have 9volts and 5 volts on both cam and crank sensors im getting fuel at least at first but still no spark ive unplugged the map, vss, knock sensors, TPS and still nothing not even a sputter when i pulled a spark plug to double check for spark it was moist and smelled of fuel i heard my fuel pump kick on and the pressure is still around 50psi which is where i set it to. please help i go to iraq in two months and i need this car mobile so i can get it to a storage unit

ok now my ecu is showing a crank sensor fault...going to run that down tomorrow (so a ratchet doesnt end up through my windshield) again.

ok well i have no idea what is going on the yellow wire has 9 volts the black and green (ground) has .2 volts?? while cranking and .001 when not cranking and the sensor wire has 5 volts and .2 when not cranking? anyone see anything im missing here

 

[tcavenger99]

check continuity between the crank and the pins on ecu / sometimes the egr pipe melts the wire . also i am having the same problem i swapped out everything with still no luck . and for some dumb reason i changed out the plugs and it started . anyway check out this post for ecu pins . good luck hope this helps.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420a-bolt-tech/336157-420a-wont-start.html

if u need any diagrams just ask i have them all and if u fighur it out let me know what u did .

 

[tcavenger99]

try this

 

[Jordan1083]

Team 2GNT Forum - Viewing topic #125905 - 95 GS No spark not the ECU

this is my thread on 2gnt please if you have any comments view this and let me know or email me at [email protected] this craps driving me nuts

 

[MikeL18]

I'm having a very similar problem right now, on my '95 ESi. Car starts and runs for about 5-10 minutes then dies. I replaced the Crankshaft sensor with a BWD one from Advance Auto and the car ran for 2 days then started acting up again. So me and my dad replaced the cam sensor and coil pack today and then the car wouldn't even start at all and I had no spark, like you.

After a lot of frustration, we put the original sensors back on and the car fired right up, but still dies after awhile. So tomorrow I'm going to a dealer to get an OEM crankshaft sensor. I think it was the fact that we had to rewire the connectors for the new sensors that caused the car to not even start. We may have wired it wrong or the connectors may just be no good with 95's.

Hope this helps.

 

[tcavenger99]

i am going back at the car the weekend mine is doing the same thing i also put a bwd crank sensor in it .funny thing is when i changed the plugs it started and ran then sputtered i am trying idle air sensor this weekend . and if all else fails i have a megasquirt on the way

 

[Jordan1083]

ok well this is whats going on now.. when i attempt to start the car the car sputters sometimes actully starting for a second or two then dies i get a CEL 42 open or short in the ASD relay or fuel pump relays or control circuit.

ive switched out the relays and still the same thing...right now i have most of the harness exposed from the throttle body down to the area near the started the only things ive found remotely problematic are the splice to the capacator the factory tape had shifted leaving a bare splice and the connector to the starter relay was coroded...other then that most of the harness shell was pretty much undamaged but when i pulled off the harness its coated with some sort of oil...may be dialectic grease but who knows if its not then maybe thats the short so im wiping it off and tracing the wires from the asd relay and then the fuel pump relay looking for anything out of the ordinary..unless someone else has an idea??

wow someone is actully talking to me...thank you

 

[Jordan1083]

I'm having a very similar problem right now, on my '95 ESi. Car starts and runs for about 5-10 minutes then dies. I replaced the Crankshaft sensor with a BWD one from Advance Auto and the car ran for 2 days then started acting up again. So me and my dad replaced the cam sensor and coil pack today and then the car wouldn't even start at all and I had no spark, like you.

After a lot of frustration, we put the original sensors back on and the car fired right up, but still dies after awhile. So tomorrow I'm going to a dealer to get an OEM crankshaft sensor. I think it was the fact that we had to rewire the connectors for the new sensors that caused the car to not even start. We may have wired it wrong or the connectors may just be no good with 95's.

Hope this helps.

hey you may want to try unhooking your temp sensor...ive seen a few people on here say that it shorted or something and wouldnt let their car run...something about dumping way too much fuel in...not really sure just remember reading it and trying it..

 

[tcavenger99]

did the whole temp sensor thing (didnt work here anyway) on thing that i did find was this trying it this weekend .

NO: 08-31-95

GROUP: Electrical

DATE: Aug. 4, 1995

SUBJECT:
Intermittent Check Engine Light,
No Start, Hard Start, or
Inoperative Condenser Fan

MODELS:
1995 (FJ) Avenger/Sebring/Talon

NOTE : THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLES WITH A 2.0 LITER (420A) ENGINE BUILT PRIOR TO MAY 24, 1995 (MDH 05-24-XX).

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:

Corrosion of the front end wiring harness connector or two wire splice joints may cause varying conditions such as check engine light on, no start, hard start, and or radiator/condenser fan inoperative. The symptoms may be intermittent and Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) may or may not be present.

DIAGNOSIS:

Using the Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) or the Scan Tool (DRB III) with the appropriate Diagnostic Procedures Manual, verify all engine systems are functioning as designed. If Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) are present, record them on the repair order and repair as necessary before proceeding with this bulletin.

For vehicles with no (DTC's) present, perform the Repair Procedure.

PARTS REQUIRED:

AR 4778570 Heat Shrink Tubing
AR NPN Rosin Core Solder
AR NPN Electrical Tape
AR 06149 3M Electrical Moisture Sealant Patch (Box) or P/N 06147 Tape (Roll)

REPAIR PROCEDURE:

This bulletin involves hard wiring the connector location and repairing two splice joints.

1. Record all radio presets, disconnect and isolate the negative battery terminal.

2. Raise the vehicle on a hoist and remove the left front wheel and splash shield.

3. Locate the A-32 connector for Talon models or A-37 connector for Avenger/Sebring models (Figure 1). The connector is a 12 way with a black insulator.

4. Disconnect the connector and carefully inspect the male and female terminals for any corrosion.

5. If corrosion is found, cut the connector from the harness and splice the wires together as listed in step number 6. If no corrosion is found, proceed to the splice repair in step number 7.

6. Remove one inch of insulation from each wire end and place a piece of heat shrink tubing, P/N 4778570, over each wire. Twist the same color wires together and solder each splice with rosin core solder. Center the heat shrink tubing over the repaired area, and heat until the tubing is tightly sealed and sealant flows from each end.

7. Remove the two bolts that hold the left corner of the upper fascia to the body. Move the fascia outward to provide better access to the splices.

8. If the vehicle is ABS equipped, remove the shield from bottom of the control unit.
9. Locate the two splice joints (Figures 1 & 2). It will be necessary to remove the wiring from the protective convolute and any electrical tape to gain access to the splices.

10. Inspect both splice joints for any corrosion. If corrosion is found, remove the corroded portion and re-splice the same colored wires together. Use the procedures outlined in step number 6 to properly repair the splices.

11. If no corrosion is found at the splices, re-solder them using rosin core solder and seal each section with 3M Electrical Moisture Sealant Patch, P/N 06149, or Tape, P/N 06147.

12. After the repair, place the wires back into the convolute. Wrap electrical tape around the convolute to prevent the wires from protruding.

13. Install the ABS control unit shield (if equipped), fascia, splash shield and wheel. Lower the vehicle.

14. Connect the negative battery cable and set the radio presets recorded in step number 1. Set the clock to the appropriate time.

15. Verify proper operation of the vehicle before returning it to the customer.


POLICY: Reimbursable within the provisions of the warranty.

TIME ALLOWANCE:
Labor Operation No: Inspect Wiring Harness Connector and Splices for Corrosion
08-94-CA-90 1.1 Hrs.

Remove Connector and Hard Wire
08-94-CA-91 0.3 Hrs.

Repair Splice Corrosion
08-94-CA-92 0.2 Hrs.

FAILURE CODE: 3T - Terminal(s) Corroded

 

[Jordan1083]

yeah this is the second time ive heard of this TSB...but ive never seen the splice portion of it before...well guess i know what im checking next Thanks

 

[tcavenger99]

wow wow wow went out to the car first turn of key it ran yet sputtered like it had a bad miss then code 25 came up idle air controal valve . trying this next weekend

 

[chad b]

hey i just want to thank everybody in this thread.my car was doin the same thing,i got a new pcm and nothin.ended up being the vss,i unplugged it and away we go.oh and i was adjusting my cam gears and broke one of the little bolts.it's like it never ends,but i'm glad i figured out this whole no spark mess.thanks again to everybody.

 

[420a_turbo]

OP

did you ever get this figured out? I have had similar issues, got them fixed but I am always reading up on it due to this being the most frustrating problem our cars can have!

 

[NeMiZiS]

What does being an early 95 have to do with it?

 

[420a_turbo]

What does being an early 95 have to do with it?

Early 95 was still manufactured by DSM even though the sell out had already happened. My car is a 2g, but the door jam shows it was manu'd in 1994. The early 1995 has a different ECU, wiring loom, lots of stuff really. The ECU is EPROM, thats a pretty big difference. No need for missing link in a 95, it doesnt fuel cut. The recall about the wire splice only applies to early 95's. 420a's made later in '95 were produced at a different factory, and don't sport the DSM tag on the door jam, they say chrysler.

Im sure there are really a million differences, those are just some of the more obvious ones.

 

[NeMiZiS]

Yea mine is made in 1994 too.
I meant is what does that fact that his is an early 95, have to do with not getting spark?
Having an e-prom doesn't benefit us with 420a's does it?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I meant is what does that fact that his is an early 95, have to do with not getting spark?

ECU's from cars manufactured before mid-1995 have a much higher than average failure rate. I don't think we'll ever know the exact reasons why, but I've heard the PCB materials are inferior and prone to delaminating.

Having an e-prom doesn't benefit us with 420a's does it?

Nope, not at all. All 420A ECU's, both the SBEC-III's and FCC's, had EEPROM memory.

 

[Jordan1083]

I have not fixed this problem yet in fact i just returned from Iraq and now im about to get knee deep in it again because its annoying the heck out of me i just noticed the reply about he VSS im going to try that next...

 

[dsmfreakturbo]

best thing to do is rip your harness out and go threw it

 

[Jordan1083]

still no luck selling some things to get cash for parts wire harness is next on my list after if finish up a few things

 

[Jordan1083]

Well im sure most have given up on this car but i havent.
Finally devoted 3 days of work to the wiring harness found some random cuts and breaks (kinks that just broke) and now ive gotten rid of Code 42 and down to code 11 only ( intermitten crank or cam sensor signal.) Now im getting voltage on both the power and signal wire ?!

So by any chance can anyone give me a reson for this? Looking at the Haynes manual the wiring diagram shows that pin 1 from the crank shaft sensor (signal output according to an earlier chapter) connects to the same circut as pin 1 of the camshaft sensor (power input according to the same chapter as before) which makes no damn sense anyone with a factory wire diagram to shed some light on this?