2gnt turbo upgrade recommendations

2gDSM420a · 09-05-2008, 06:22 AM

So recently I purchased a 2gnt that had a significant amount of mods done to it (one of which is a Turbinates evolution turbo) that i assumed were done properly and would be a reliable DD for myself. Boy was I wrong. The dealer who sold me the car turned out to be... (insert your nasty term of choice here). Long story short, coming from Hondas, turbo was but a dream for me, and now that i threw myself headfirst into this DSM I find myself in over my head. Currently my biggest issue is overheating, but i recently purchased a hi-po Fluidyne radiator and some other various coolant system upgrades to address that issue. so here is my question(s). What are the basic requirement to make a 97 420a run with an aftermarket turbo as a reliable DD? engine internals? ignition/fuel upgrades? ecu upgrades? it currently has an safc-II but i read thats not any good on a 420a so I'm looking into the MegaSquirt system. my main goal is to keep it street legal and yet have enough hp to eat up my Honda friends. 350hp is the goal.

thanks
Sean.

david-b · 09-05-2008, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2gDSM420a

So recently I purchased a 2gnt that had a significant amount of mods done to it (one of which is a Turbinates evolution turbo) that i assumed were done properly and would be a reliable DD for myself. Boy was I wrong. The dealer who sold me the car turned out to be... (insert your nasty term of choice here). Long story short, coming from Hondas, turbo was but a dream for me, and now that i threw myself headfirst into this DSM I find myself in over my head. Currently my biggest issue is overheating, but i recently purchased a hi-po Fluidyne radiator and some other various coolant system upgrades to address that issue. so here is my question(s). What are the basic requirement to make a 97 420a run with an aftermarket turbo as a reliable DD? engine internals? ignition/fuel upgrades? ecu upgrades? it currently has an safc-II but i read thats not any good on a 420a so I'm looking into the MegaSquirt system. my main goal is to keep it street legal and yet have enough hp to eat up my Honda friends. 350hp is the goal.

thanks
Sean.

350hp is a lot of work for a 420a. The internals are going to need to be upgraded since they can only handle about 8psi. The SAFC is not going to allow you to get up that high. You will want to invest in MS for sure.

As for overheating, are their 2 fans? Make sure they're working properly and you may want to consider installing a switch to turn them on manually.

Do some searching in the 420a general and turbo section because they're a lot of good questions and good answers taken care of in there.

99RedGs · 09-05-2008, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david-b

350hp is a lot of work for a 420a. The internals are going to need to be upgraded since they can only handle about 8psi. The SAFC is not going to allow you to get up that high. You will want to invest in MS for sure.

As for overheating, are their 2 fans? Make sure they're working properly and you may want to consider installing a switch to turn them on manually.

Do some searching in the 420a general and turbo section because they're a lot of good questions and good answers taken care of in there.

Yes, and no. Once you upgrade the internals, it should be the same steps as pretty much any other DOHC 2.0L.

**DISCLAIMER: I have not actually boosted my 420a yet, but have done countless hours of reading and this is the information I have gathered. My 420a build is in the works and just waiting on a little more funding before parts are ordered**

An SAFC will help you control your injectors a bit during idle, but will do nothing for you one in boost. My goal is 350whp as well, and I am debating between MSnS and Portfueler. The supposed ease of portfueler is what I like the most, but the versatility of an MSnS system is more appealing to me. The problem for me is that I don't know how to tune AT ALL, so that makes me want the portfueler more. On the other hand I plan on paying for a dyno tune anyways so not knowing how to use MSnS right away shouldn't be a huge issue. Once I get it hooked up and tuned by a professional I can read up on what goes on and actaully do it hands-on.

MSnS allows you to control spark and fuel which is why it is seen as one of the best "bang for your buck" stand alone systems.

There is only 1 modified Ecu for our cars and that is for the 97, but it is expensive and not worth the price for what it actually does.

Do you know what kind of clutch is in it? You wont be able to hold 350 on a stock clutch. My suggestion is to do some research on Southbend clutches. My research has shown that they are probably one of the better aftermarket clutch suppliers for us.

You want to beat those Hondas? Then I suggest you look into a little bit of weight savings as well. Do you have a sub set-up in your car? Ditch them and save yourself the 120lbs. Do you need A/C where you live?If not lose it. Saves on a little drivetrain loss and about 40lbs of weight. I know here the summers don't get very bad and having the windows down is sufficient. There are a lot of things you can do to lighten your car a bit and still keep it civilized. Remember, anything you add that doesn't make you go faster only makes you slower.

Do you know what the current fuel system set-up is like? FMU? Injector size? FPR? Fuel Pump? This is another limiting factor when going turbo. Many people forget about having a proper fuel set-up because they spent all of their money on hooking the turbo up. I hope to god you aren't still running a fully stock fuel system, or you need to stay out of boost.

Do you have a FCD (fuel cut defender)? Our MAP sensors don't like any positive manifold pressure and as soon as you go into boost it will cut you off. The FCD limits the map sensor and doesn't let it see any positive pressure.

I'll think of more to add later..

2gDSM420a · 09-05-2008, 02:10 PM

i have really no idea about what exactly is done to this car other then what i can see. i was told by the bastard who sold me the car that the bottom end was built up to with hold the boost and that there is a 9 puck clutch but seeing as how shiesty he is i wouldn't believe a word of it. the boost gauge i seen go up as high as 18 or 19psi, no idea what for fuel upgrades are done but i have some plans... Walbro pump and like 1100cc injectors. the fans both run and i do have them hooked up to a switch, I'm also installing an in-line electric water pump as well. as for internals, would any of you recommend any particular brand. i know Wiseco makes a good piston as do JE but how about rods and rings and how much can i change before the engine needs rebalanced. and what about the top end? any recommendations there?

thx again
Sean

Locke · 09-05-2008, 05:57 PM

Anytime you change something in the rotating assembly, you should have it balanced.

Eagle and Crower both make awesome rods for us. Most use Eagles, they're very strong and inexpensive.

Most piston kits will include rings, those would be fine. Any rings will be suitable, really, as long as they're not the bottom-of-the-bucket sort.

Change the thermostat and radiator cap. Very inexpensive and easy to do. If you have a FMIC, make sure it is clean and the fins are straight. Same goes for the A/C condenser and radiator. Try sealing the area around the FMIC, and points behind it, to make sure air goes through them, and not around them. You have to get air all the way back to the radiator. Often, the condenser is the first to go (if you can live without A/C) when cooling becomes an issue. Consider it, it is cheaper than a larger radiator.

You need to study your engine bay a bit before you go boosting around. Make sure everything was done properly, or you will be out a lot of money.

DRAGIN · 09-05-2008, 06:18 PM

I'm not quite sure if I totally agree with the statement of anytime you put a new part in the rotating assembly the whole system must be balanced. Must be, I feel, is a strong statement. I've measured rod sets and piston sets right out of the box and have had them right on the money or within a gram respectively. Yes matching the rod/piston combo to each other and to the counterweight on the crank is a good idea however it's not necessary for most applications. Making huge power in a track car? Sure necessary in that applicaton. Most applications you'll never feel or see the difference and certainly won't hurt the engines life. I wouldn't be scared about installing a new set of rods or what have you but certainly polishing the crank and wrist pins and new bearings is a great idea. Don't forget to plastic gauge the bearing clearances. That and a clean installation is most important providing all your other specs are on. However that being said if the guy was questionable I'd pull the bottom end apart. Have everything cleaned and measured, hone/bore/polish were needed and reassemble.

I like JE and Ross pistons and Crower H beam rods. Eagles are good for lower HP applications and are a cheap strong rod as a step up over stock 1G big rods. Carillo, Pauter are also good rods but bigger money.

Locke · 09-05-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Anytime you change something in the rotating assembly, you should have it balanced.

I never said it was a must, but the process is inexpensive. Why wouldn't you?

In an ideal world, pistons and rods would always come with matched weights, and spark plugs would come with the gap they are labeled at. But thats seldom the case.

If you did throw parts in without balancing, I wouldn't recommend spinning them very fast.

rstare · 09-05-2008, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david-b

The internals are going to need to be upgraded since they can only handle about 8psi.

Theres neons with stock bottoms running 15 and 16psi.
I would say find out what fuel setup you are running, and look into Msns.
If your running 19psi your at the point where you NEED to start pulling timing.. just food for thought...
Your probably already have a 255lph hp pump. Thats what 99% of people that turbo 420a's use.

Flipboi89 · 09-07-2008, 03:11 PM

Why wouldnt you have everything balanced once you add all those goodies? that would suck knowing once you blew send a rod through your engine it could of been different if you balanced your stuff. And from what i heard safc cant control injectors over like 500cc. And id like to add the hahn portfueler system if it hasnt been said. Ms is great and all but if you dont wanna learn it or think it will be too hard go with the portfueler system.

rstare · 09-07-2008, 04:19 PM

Well you can only run so much boost without pulling timing. And thats the problem with portfueler, sure now you can run more boost but without some way of pulling timing you are going to get crazy knock. So then you have to get something like Msd.
I decided to go with Msns just cause, it will simplify things in the long run. Learn and deal with it all now and get it over with cause either way it seems like you get to a certian point and Msns is the only way to go.