Master Cylinder filter??

[GSEclipse620]

Hey, Latley I've been having some clutch trouble. Somtimes during harder driving all of a sudden it will start to slip, to varying degrees. Somtimes it won't engage at all. I'm convinced from a couple different things that is isn't some flaw in the clutch(almost new). And I have gotten rebuild kits for the slave and master cylinder which included new gaskets/seals and we polished all metel that had to seal.
The only thing we really haven't fixed up is the filter thing? on the top of the master cylinder. It looks like it's filtering fluid coming or going to the slave cylinder. That's my guess, can any body tell me exactly what it is and does and do you think this could be my problem? Thanks

 

[cimotorsports]

What kind of clutch are you running?

 

[Defiant]

The mesh in the neck of the master cylinder resevoir is to keep crap and small vermin from falling in, and it helps quash bubble formation from vibration.

Please work on your grammar in your posts.

 

[Locke]

Are you properly bleeding all the air from the lines after doing this work? Did just install this? Clutches often feel wrong until they seat.

I doubt, if it feels like it is slipping, it is a hydraulic issue. The hydraulic system is used for disengaging the clutch, it is engaged by springs (the large metal fingers on the pressure plate). Seems to me you have a failing component. Glazed/warped Flywheel or PP, or just a horribly poor quality disc, perhaps? Maybe a bent fork or fulcrum?

What kind of clutch are you running, and where did you purchase it?

I wouldnt be driving it hard until you get it sorted out, as when it slips, you are just wearing it faster.

 

[GSEclipse620]

Hi, I am useing a stock replacement, I couldn't tell you exactly what though. We ordered a clutch and when we got it, they sent us a Mazda clutch, so we went to the first parts store that had a clutch that would fit and got it (we didn't look at the clutch untill it was time to put it in, and w/ the tranny out already we wern't going to put it back and wait for a new clutch to be shipped.) So it is just some genaric NAPA or VIP/Pep Boys (one of them) clutch/flywheel/throw out bearing ect. It's got 10k on it tops, probably more around 5k.

I'm convinced that the problem is in the hydrolic system and not in the clutch assembley because of a symptom it has had more than once; Like I said It usually has it's trouble and starts slipping under hard driving or quick clutch work. One morning (let me start out by saying that my 2nd gear is a bit notchy espesially when cold) I was heading to school and was just curious to see if I double clutched into 2nd if it would go in smoother. It did, but immiediatly after,,, when I let the clutch out in 2nd,, it engaged much higher,, the clutch pedal traval was farther and it wasn't engaging all of the way, it could slip if I gave it some. So here I am rolling down the road, I put it in neutral and pump the clutch for a while to see if it makes a difference (if it was a flaw in the clutch itself than pumping the system should have no effect). I put it back into gear and it's worse than before! It is barely engaging now! I pull off to the side of the road happy for a legitamate exuse to miss school , and call my buddy to help me bleed it out. He comes over shortley after I call, we bleed the system, start it up and it's as good as I have ever felt it.

Another theory I have heard is that I have a faulty clutch system and it is temperature related. This also rules that out because the car barley had time to warm up between my house and about a football field down the road where I stopped, nor did it have time to cool down at all between my phone call to my buddy and when he showed up. So after bleeding the system everything was fine,,, that sounds like it is in the hydrolic system to me. Tell me what you guys think.

As for my grammar, Defiant, I assume you are talking about the couple of misspelled words and the "?" in the middle of my sentance I just caught that when I looked my post over. English was never my subject, but I will try to keep my posts more grammatically correct. If you happen to catch a mess up, feel free to school me on my nouns and verbs. Thanks for the ideas everybody!

 

[Locke]

has it acted up since you bled it? if not, then it seems the problem is solved.
it would seem your correct though... if bleeding it helped, thats probably it.. keep an eye on your clutch fluid.. if it goes low, you would be leaking somewhere, hence the need to bleed it again after you worked on the master. (i am assuming you bled it to begin with)

Hope it is/gets worked out for you.

 

[GSEclipse620]

I have bled it several times due to this issue, it is becoming very annoying. It is always fine after I bleed it and it will either slowley deteriorate and get worse over time or go all at once during harder driving. The fluid level has never been low, whether it is slipping or not. For the record; when it is slipping I don't drive like an idiot and just burn my clutch,, I just have to go real slow

 

[Locke]

if it is good after you bleed it, then becomes a problem, you have a small leak that is letting air into the system. it is easier to suck air into a small hole than to squirt fluid out it. i would check the fittings at the master and the slave. you say you have rebuilt the master and slave.

Im thinking something may not have gone right with the rebuild (not bashing, ive done it alot and still mess up now and then). Maybe, after checking the easier line connections, tear the master and slave apart again, re-checking the condition of the bores, and rebuilding it again. (same parts if they are new and not damaged during removal). Hopefully something just isnt straight.

Either way, a second look may reveal something.

Good luck. Hope it works out.

 

[bryanwheat]

To anyone that said anything about bleeding the system. AIr in the line has nothing to do with the clutch not grabbing, if there were air in the line, than the clutch wouldn't disengage right.

Now here is your problem. Your clutch pedal rod is adjusted too tight, it is not releasing all the way, there should be an ammount of freeplay when the pedal is depressed. IF you don't allow for this, and are driving it hard, and doing some fast clutching, than the pressure plate son't be able to release all the way, because the master cylinder isn't able to release all the pressure. You need to get under the dash, and adjust that rod.

 

[GSEclipse620]

To anyone that said anything about bleeding the system. AIr in the line has nothing to do with the clutch not grabbing, if there were air in the line, than the clutch wouldn't disengage right.

Now here is your problem. Your clutch pedal rod is adjusted too tight, it is not releasing all the way, there should be an ammount of freeplay when the pedal is depressed. IF you don't allow for this, and are driving it hard, and doing some fast clutching, than the pressure plate son't be able to release all the way, because the master cylinder isn't able to release all the pressure. You need to get under the dash, and adjust that rod.

EXACTLY!!! I wish I had checked this because I didn't see this post until I came back to update tonight. We ordered some more random parts from Mistu and were just putting them in tonight at the shop. We got a new hose that goes from the resevior, the plastic peice on top of the master that the hose connects too and a new clamp that holds that peice to the mast. (In retrospect I don't know why we thought any of those parts would help but we were basically just throwing parts at it at this point.) None of those helped but while we had the Mast. Cyl. out we looked at it extensivley to see exactly how it funtioned.

In the plunger there is a one way valve on the output side of the cylinder. There is a slot cut out of the plunger for a rod that goes through the master cylinder. This rod is fixed and is set up so that when the clutch is engaged (foot off pedal) it presses against the valve opening it up and letting fluid travel back up into the resevior. There is a rod that connects the plunger to the pedal by means of a bracket. The rod is skrewed into the bracket. What we did was just give the rod another half turn bringing it back towards the pedal a bit. Thus bringing the plunger back towards the pedal a bit. Now the valve is hitting the rod (the first one,, the one inside the master cyl.) better and is letting all of the fluid back.

What was happening before was the inner rod wasn't coming into contact with the valve enough to let all of the fluid back into the resevior, keeping pressure in the system and keeping the clutch disengaged to varying degrees. It is obviously kind of finicky and there is a margin of error since it varied from time to time.

Now the pedal has a different feel to it. The half turn did a lot more than I thought it would. My clutch engages about a 1/2"-3/4" off the floor and I have much more free play at the top. I just say this to warn you that adjusting the rod is somewhat sensative and if you do it too much you might not disengage completley and grind gears. I probably only needed a 1/4 turn but what ever,, it works. I drove it moderatly hard on the way home to test it out and did a lot of double clutching around because that is what usually sets it off and it felt fine after about a half hr. ride so I'm conviced that I've finally won

 

[Locke]

To anyone that said anything about bleeding the system. AIr in the line has nothing to do with the clutch not grabbing, if there were air in the line, than the clutch wouldn't disengage right.

I doubt, if it feels like it is slipping, it is a hydraulic issue. The hydraulic system is used for disengaging the clutch, it is engaged by springs (the large metal fingers on the pressure plate).

bryanwheat: He said bleeding it helped, I tried to go along with it. Although I failed to mention the rods. Good call.

Regardless,

OP: thats a nice description of how the master operates. Glad you got your car fixed. Hope you enjoy your non-slipping clutch.