SAFC Install Help 95NT

[WhtEclipse705]

Hey guys, i have a 95 Eclipse NT and i bought a SAFCII today and the guy i bought it from tried to help me install it. but it didnt work. we didnt have the right pinouts and needless to say, just going off the colors, it didnt work. maybe we did something wrong, maybe we didnt.. either way, i did some leg work and got some information to share with the 95NT guys.. i think 95 is the only one with this wiring diagram, but i could be wrong.. wisemen check me on this one if you could..

I used these 2 sources for my information.
The SAFC Install Instructions
The 95NT ECU Pinout

This is the information i came up with, so that if you own a 95 NT, and you are trying to install your SAFC, this may help.. i hope

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Now i have a cut up wireing harness and no SAFC installed.. so i have to go in and try to install it again, and i hope all my connections are good enought..

Again, anyone who finds my information to be incorrect.. please please let me know, cause i dont want to be giving out false information.. Thanks

 

[XMasta19]

I haven't installed an SAFC on my car because I didn't really see the use in it...but yes, us 95's have only one main harness to our ECU while the other guys have a upper and a lower

 

[WhtEclipse705]

Ya, after doing more research on it, and reading over old threads, with the mods i have done i dont need it.. but i am considering turboing mine soon.. so i will need it then..

The guy i bought it from, he was looking behind the driver kick pannel for my computer, i guess thats where his is.. he was kinda happy when i told him mine was under the hood, and it was easy to get to. He has a 96 GST.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Actually, I'd say you'll need it even less after the turbo project. Your main methods for fuel management will be physical unless you decide to go for a full stand alone system.

 

[WhtEclipse705]

With my current setup, i am going to be installing a 57mm throttle body, and i didnt think the ecu would beable to keep up with the extra unrestricted air flow... so i was going to use the SAFC to make sure the fuel was keeping up with the air, thus tunning just a little bit more power.. but like you may have noticed, i am new at this.. so correct me if i am wrong, like i may be.. .. Thanks for all the added input..

 

[GSGoinFast]

Actually, I'd say you'll need it even less after the turbo project. Your main methods for fuel management will be physical unless you decide to go for a full stand alone system.

If you really wanted to hook up a wideband and tune it with a s-afc, then you could. But for 7psi it wouldnt really be worth it, mine hasnt been tuned since I put my kit on.

 

[WhtEclipse705]

If you really wanted to hook up a wideband and tune it with a s-afc, then you could. But for 7psi it wouldnt really be worth it, mine hasnt been tuned since I put my kit on.

Thats interesting.. i was told tuning would be a must.. especally if i got my turbo installed.. but if you havent, then maybe the need for this unit is alot less then i thought..

 

[VelocitàPaola]

If you really wanted to hook up a wideband and tune it with a s-afc, then you could. But for 7psi it wouldnt really be worth it, mine hasnt been tuned since I put my kit on.

Yeah, but even so, the S-AFC only works with stock MAP signals, which are overridden or ignored after a turbocharger is put on.

 

[GSGoinFast]

Yeah, but even so, the S-AFC only works with stock MAP signals, which are overridden or ignored after a turbocharger is put on.

To a point, yes. You can still reduce the amount of fuel by lowering the MAP signal. Remember the FCD is in place to prevent the MAP signal from going higher then a certain point so you don't trip a CEL. The stock computer still calculates fuel and ignition timing off of that MAP sensor which makes the ecu think its still just a regular full throttle with 0 vac in the manifold. The fmu increases the fuel with raised fuel pressures. The s-afc can still modify that MAP sensor and the ecu will adjust pulse duration off of that, although you can only make it leaner, since if you made it richer, you would be defeating the purpose of the FCD by raising the MAP signal voltage.

 

[WhtEclipse705]

To a point, yes. You can still reduce the amount of fuel by lowering the MAP signal. Remember the FCD is in place to prevent the MAP signal from going higher then a certain point so you don't trip a CEL. The stock computer still calculates fuel and ignition timing off of that MAP sensor which makes the ecu think its still just a regular full throttle with 0 vac in the manifold. The fmu increases the fuel with raised fuel pressures. The s-afc can still modify that MAP sensor and the ecu will adjust pulse duration off of that, although you can only make it leaner, since if you made it richer, you would be defeating the purpose of the FCD by raising the MAP signal voltage.

You should have seen my face after i read this.. i got alot to learn.. most of that went over my head..

i'll ask this quick question in the middle of that discussion (which is great for eveyone to see)

With my current setup, would it be a waste of time and money to hook up the SAFC and tune my car with its current mods(soon to include the larger TB)??

 

[VelocitàPaola]

although you can only make it leaner, since if you made it richer, you would be defeating the purpose of the FCD by raising the MAP signal voltage.

My point exactly... although, if you buy a good variable output FCD, you get practically the same effect. What are the differences? The S-AFC has a nice pretty display, and it cycles the MAP voltage between high and low to get the desired effect. With a variable output FCD, you can cap the MAP signal at whatever you like, which is basically what the S-AFC does anyway.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

With my current setup, would it be a waste of time and money to hook up the SAFC and tune my car with its current mods(soon to include the larger TB)??

Yes. The S-AFC just doesn't do the same things for our cars as it does for... say, a Honda.

In fact, it was just recently discussed in another thread. You can lean out your AFR a little with it, but you won't see much in terms of HP or torque.

 

[WhtEclipse705]

Yes. The S-AFC just doesn't do the same things for our cars as it does for... say, a Honda.

In fact, it was just recently discussed in another thread. You can lean out your AFR a little with it, but you won't see much in terms of HP or torque.

Thank you for your honest information, and for letting me know the reasons why you felt it was a waste..

I'll have to think about what i am going to do now..

 

[GSGoinFast]

My point exactly... although, if you buy a good variable output FCD, you get practically the same effect. What are the differences? The S-AFC has a nice pretty display, and it cycles the MAP voltage between high and low to get the desired effect. With a variable output FCD, you can cap the MAP signal at whatever you like, which is basically what the S-AFC does anyway.

But does the cap remain stationary throughout the RPMs? The FCD will just cap the MAP sensor at whatever you set it at, while the S-afc will reduce or raise the MAP signal through different RPMs and throttle percentages. Not quite the same.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Not quite the same.

I agree; but still, I just don't think a piggy back is the way to go if you're looking to tune. It might be able to lean out the A/F ratio a little, but you'll never be able to get it to properly control any larger injectors. Any effects it has on performance will be negligible.

 

[GSGoinFast]

I agree; but still, I just don't think a piggy back is the way to go if you're looking to tune. It might be able to lean out the A/F ratio a little, but you'll never be able to get it to properly control any larger injectors. Any effects it has on performance will be negligible.

I agree 100%

 

[XMasta19]

Well I'm glad you two finally settled that...I was getting eager to post.

Best bet is to just sell the S-AFC and make yourself some dough. I honestly don't even see the real need to get such a big TB (where are you getting it) unless you're already turbo or definitely doing so in the near future.

Make sure to rub in your buddies face that we're special , w00t 420a

 

[crazy_skier]

hi, my freind with a 98 rs is thinking of buying my safc and was wondering if it would help him tune for better gas milage (doesnt care alot about performace), and the mods that he has are the AEM short ram, DC Sport headers, cat back exhaust. He is looking to tune for the best milage and we would be using a logger with out a wideband. Is it worth it for him, i dont know enough about 420a's to inform him properly. Thanks for your time

 

[crazy_skier]

oh yeah, sorry about the bump

 

[GSGoinFast]

He would probably spend more $ on the S-AFC then he would on the gas for the difference it would make. Not worth it for gas mileage.

 

[XMasta19]

+1 ...not worth it

 

[crazy_skier]

ok thanks, i will let him know and then let him decide from there

 

[4UH8ERS]

Yeah, but even so, the S-AFC only works with stock MAP signals, which are overridden or ignored after a turbocharger is put on.

I was under the impression that all people with the 1 plug ecu, all cars manufactured before 96, do not require a missing link. Therefore, the safc makes more accurate readings?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Not quite. The S-AFC works by modifying the stock MAP signal. As you know, since our cars are naturally aspirated from the factory, our MAP sensors only operate in the vacuum range. Hence, the S-AFC can make changes to the fuel curve under vaccum, but while in boost, it's relatively useless since the fuel curve is now being modifyied by other means (FMU, S-FMU, MS, etc.).

Whether your car needs an FCD or not isn't relavant because either way, the S-AFC is only effective in the vacuum range, where the FCD isn't even activated.

 

[4UH8ERS]

Not quite. The S-AFC works by modifying the stock MAP signal. As you know, since our cars are naturally aspirated from the factory, our MAP sensors only operate in the vacuum range. Hence, the S-AFC can make changes to the fuel curve under vaccum, but while in boost, it's relatively useless since the fuel curve is now being modifyied by other means (FMU, S-FMU, MS, etc.).

Whether your car needs an FCD or not isn't relavant because either way, the S-AFC is only effective in the vacuum range, where the FCD isn't even activated.

Ok thanks, Hints the reason why people use it to help there idle, because there obviously under vacuum pressure then.