Most WHP out of N/A 420A

[billy b]

Hey everyone I have been lurking here for the past couple weeks looking through posts and such. I have yet to see the max WHP someone can get out of a N/A 420A engine... I would like to know what the most is with bolt on's then the most with bolt ons and internals... Can anyone answer this? I applogize if this is a re-post but I didn't see it....


Thanks guys!




Bill
98 Eclipse RS

 

[billy b]

THis is without NOS and Bolt on turbo, I didn't really make that clear.....


Thanks

 

[miamieclipse]

I applogize if this is a re-post but I didn't see it....

By see it do you mean serched for it and couldn't find.......Did you search?

 

[d_money1]

my be about 230 compleatly built with a stroker and cams that wont idle.
without internals about 150whp.

 

[billy b]

By see it do you mean serched for it and couldn't find.......Did you search?

Yes, I did do a search. I looked through about 3 pages of the search results and didn't find the answer. Maybe I am blind but I didn't see anything.

 

[billy b]

my be about 230 compleatly built with a stroker and cams that wont idle.
without internals about 150whp.

Cool, 150 WHP is about what I was wanting to get...thanks for the response!

 

[scirio]

our 420a's are 140 at the crank. like 120 whp. so I dont know what you wuold add to get you to 150Whp without internals. You are dreaming sir. Header, intake, exhaust, udp, plugs. all that weak shit wont ad but maybe 10 if youre lucky. http://www.2gnt.com check it out. more 420a info there.

 

[speedy13]

i got 119 hp and 106 of tourqe when i dynoed 3 weeks ago.It was also 97 deegres in the shop dough,and my car has 130kmiles

 

[billy b]

stage 1:


exhaust
cost $40-$600
difficulty 2
approx. wheel HP: 5
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1 to 0.15 sec
comment: Essential to reduce restriction in exhaust. A muffler from a GS-T is the least expensive replacement and very effective, but a larger diameter cat back would be a better choice if you plan on extensive naturally aspirated modifications (i.e. stage 5-6) and essential if your long term plans are to buy a turbo or nitrous kit.


intake
cost $50-$250
difficulty 1
approx. wheel HP: 8-12
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.15-0.3 sec
comment: Replaces the extremely restrictive stock air box. Price, and power increase, ranges from a cone filter on the end of the stock intake tube, to short ram intakes, to a cold air setup. A cold air intake is easily the most effective intake to get, but be careful of ingesting water into the engine. You could, of course, build your own intake out of custom piping.


stage 2:


UDP
cost $160-$200
difficulty 3
approx. wheel HP: 5-8
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1 sec
comment: Reduces the drag of the accessories on the engine (A/C, power steering, alternator). Very effective modification that improves power over the entire RPM range.


Header
cost $200-$450
difficulty 2
approx. wheel HP: 1-2 at high RPMS, much more at low RPMS
approx. ¼ mile improvement: typically none
comment: A header reduces some restriction in your exhaust path, but more importantly tunes your car’s exhaust to provide power at certain points in the RPM range. Typically a header does not add very much top end power to our cars and does little, if anything, for the ¼ mile. But, a header is still an effective modification since it does add significant low end power which helps to greatly improve performance on the street. A header could prove more effective for drag racing and top end power with a VERY short runner design and with more extensive modifications.

stage 3:


intake manifold
cost: $0-$450
difficulty: 3 for installation, 3 if you try to port it yourself, very time consuming to do yourself
approx. wheel HP: 5-8
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1-0.15 sec
comment: Intake manifold work improves airflow through our intake manifolds (which have very long runners with a sand cast finish), yielding more top end power. A port and polish job is typically much cheaper than a manifold that has been Extrude Honed and should give similar results, especially if you do it yourself.


SAFC – Super Air Flow Converter
Cost: $200-$310
Difficulty: 3
approx. wheel HP: 8
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.15 sec
comment: A SAFC will allow control of the air/fuel mixture. With proper tuning some significant gains can be made with a SAFC, but improper tuning can cause serious engine damage. A standalone computer at this point might be a better idea if you plan on some very SERIOUS modifications in the future.


after market computer (instead of SAFC) – (typically an AFX race computer)
Cost: $370-$500
Difficulty: 1 for plug and play computer
approx. wheel HP: 10-15
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.20 or possibly more
comment: An after market computer will improve the car’s air/fuel mixture and ignition timing, improving power without the guesswork of tuning a SAFC. While it has the advantages of ease of installation and it does not need to be tuned (which is probably perfect for most people); certain applications might require the tuning ability of an SAFC. A standalone computer at this point might be a better idea if you plan on some very SERIOUS modifications in the future. Some specific valve train upgrades might be needed to handle repeated use at the higher than stock rev limiter provided by an aftermarket computer.


stage 4:


high flow catalytic converter or test pipe
cost: $50-$200
difficulty: 2
approx. wheel HP: 2-5
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.05-0.1 sec
comment: Reduces (or removes completely) the restriction in the exhaust caused by the catalytic converter. Not a very effective modification if done before this stage. A test pipe is cheaper than a high flow cat and will give noticeably more power, but is illegal on the street.


cam gears
cost: $250-$300
difficulty: 4
approx. wheel HP: 6-8
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1 sec
comment: Tuning of stock camshafts with adjustable cam gears can give a noticeable power increase, but needs to be tuned on a dyno to be most effective. The cam gears can actually be tuned to give you top end power or low end power. They are difficult to install, so make sure you know what you are doing before hand. They are essential later on if you are changing your camshafts to after market ones.


throttle body
cost: $0-$100
difficulty: 1, 5 if you bore it yourself
approx. wheel HP: 5
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1 sec if used with a cold air intake and a ported/polished intake manifold
comment: Reduces restriction caused by throttle body and increases power in the upper RPM range. It also greatly increases throttle response. Can be done much earlier than stage 4 if you desire more throttle response, but typically does not improve HP much until other supporting mods are in place. This is because improvements to other parts of your intake path earlier on are more effective, as the throttle body isn’t the major restriction in the intake path.


stage 5:


standalone computer
cost: $1000-$2000 or more
difficulty: 1 plug and play system, 4 wire in yourself
approx. wheel HP: 15-20 or more, depending on other mods and tuning
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.25 sec possibly more
comment: Used instead of a SAFC or an after market computer for ultimate control of the car’s fuel and timing maps. Must be tuned precisely and thoroughly to be effective or engine damage can occur. Essential for some turbo and nitrous applications, and for higher compression pistons, head work, race cams, and other extensive modifications.


cam shafts
cost: $200-$600
difficulty: 4
approx. wheel HP: 10-20, possibly more, depending on type of camshafts and other mods
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.20 seconds, possibly more
comment: Changes the lift and duration of your camshaft timing. They are essential for gaining very serious amounts of power. A mild cam will not affect your low end much (if at all) and keep your car useable for the street, but will also not provide as much power. A race cam will kill your low end while providing lots of top end power, and most likely will require a standalone computer for an increased rev limiter, and an upgraded valve train to handle the higher lift and duration provided by race cams. Reground cams are also available and cheaper than regular aftermarket cams, but you will loose valve lift and need to shim the valves to regain it.


plug wires
cost: $50-$150
Difficulty: 1
approx. wheel HP: none, see below
approx. ¼ mile improvement: none, see below
comment: Yes, plug wires are in stage 5. Why? Because unless your stock wires are going bad, after market wires are useless up until you actually need an upgraded ignition. (Save your money for something that actually provides HP!) They do NOT provide more HP, but are ESSENTIAL if you have after market coil packs and ignition amplifiers, which is why they are in the stage just before those modifications.


stage 6:


head work (includes valve train upgrades)
cost: $660-$1600
difficulty 5 for install
approx. wheel HP: possibly up to 50hp for the headwork in conjunction with a higher rev limiter and very high performance cams
approx. ¼ mile improvement: at least 0.40 seconds possibly more
Comment: Getting your head worked on can range from just smoothing the ports and doing light bowl work (about $660) all the way up to full port work, valve job (3 or 5 angle at least), and valve train rebuild (new springs, lash adjusters, rocker arms, and oversized valves). Head work sometimes comes in packages with valve train upgrades included with it, but parts of the valve train can be replaced as needed. The valve train upgrades have been included with the headwork for the sake of simplicity. Valve train upgrades are usually done to allow the valve train to take greater stress.


bottom end rebuild/stroker kit
cost: $1100 bottom end rebuild, $1600 for 2.2L stroker kit with bottom end rebuild
difficulty: 5
approx. wheel HP: Each point of compression adds 4% to your power. Stroker kit adds displacement, which should add about 20 HP or so.
Approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.30-0.40 seconds, possibly more
Comment: A bottom end rebuild will replace your pistons, connecting rods, rings, and bearings. Increased compression will add 4% more power for each point above what you already have (i.e. going from 9.6 to 1 to 10.6 to 1 compression will add 4% more power, it’s in the textbook). Higher compression typically requires a stronger ignition system in order to work. A stroker kit adds displacement to your combustion chamber and more displacement means more potential for more power. Typically bottom end rebuilds are done with other supporting mods or for turbo kit applications.


ignition amplifier
cost: $320-$360
difficulty: 2
approx. wheel HP: none or very little, see below
approx. ¼ mile improvement: none see below
Comment: Stronger ignition coils are typically required to work with very high HP applications (cams, headwork, and higher rev limiter) and higher compression ratio pistons. Might give you a little power at these higher power levels. Requires the use of two tach adapter to allow this to work with the 420a crank angle sensor.


ignition retard
cost: $100-$140
difficulty: 2
approx. wheel HP: none see below
approx. ¼ mile improvement: none see below
Comment: Ignition retard is needed with very high compression to protect your car from detonation.

 

[billy b]

Looks like you can get about 50 - 80 with bolt-ons and minor internals...

 

[1fast97gsx]

i got 119 hp and 106 of tourqe when i dynoed 3 weeks ago.It was also 97 deegres in the shop dough,and my car has 130kmiles

No offense ... but I'm just curious. Why did you even bother dynoing that?

 

[1fast97gsx]

Looks like you can get about 50 - 80 with bolt-ons and minor internals...

Um ... no.

 

[aliczander]

Looks like you can get about 50 - 80 with bolt-ons and minor internals...

u looked at the cost of all that right??? to you that might be minor but in my bood thats completly rebuilding your motor head... stroker kit... come on now how is that minor, cai spark plug wires udp thats minor stuff a noob can do in there back yard is minor your talkin some serous work here and a lot of money
save yourself the heart ach buy a turbo kit run 7 psi of boost get your self some real bolt on hp and then work your way up
i beleave in building the motor as much as the next guy but your talking major time and money
and your parts list is just the half of it
becaues im sure if your askin this simple of a question you cant put a head on or drop a stroker kit in by yourself so unless you got some family that owns a shop its gonna take u quite a while and quite a bid of money the cheepest place ive found to even touch my car is like 65 bucks an hour labor and i wouldent trust them to put my head in, your talkin way more for the pros to do it
minor... minor my ass.... ha ha

 

[billy b]

e 1:


exhaust
cost $40-$600
difficulty 2
approx. wheel HP: 5
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1 to 0.15 sec
comment: Essential to reduce restriction in exhaust. A muffler from a GS-T is the least expensive replacement and very effective, but a larger diameter cat back would be a better choice if you plan on extensive naturally aspirated modifications (i.e. stage 5-6) and essential if your long term plans are to buy a turbo or nitrous kit.


intake
cost $50-$250
difficulty 1
approx. wheel HP: 8-12
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.15-0.3 sec
comment: Replaces the extremely restrictive stock air box. Price, and power increase, ranges from a cone filter on the end of the stock intake tube, to short ram intakes, to a cold air setup. A cold air intake is easily the most effective intake to get, but be careful of ingesting water into the engine. You could, of course, build your own intake out of custom piping.


stage 2:


UDP
cost $160-$200
difficulty 3
approx. wheel HP: 5-8
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1 sec
comment: Reduces the drag of the accessories on the engine (A/C, power steering, alternator). Very effective modification that improves power over the entire RPM range.


Header
cost $200-$450
difficulty 2
approx. wheel HP: 1-2 at high RPMS, much more at low RPMS
approx. ¼ mile improvement: typically none
comment: A header reduces some restriction in your exhaust path, but more importantly tunes your car’s exhaust to provide power at certain points in the RPM range. Typically a header does not add very much top end power to our cars and does little, if anything, for the ¼ mile. But, a header is still an effective modification since it does add significant low end power which helps to greatly improve performance on the street. A header could prove more effective for drag racing and top end power with a VERY short runner design and with more extensive modifications.

stage 3:


intake manifold
cost: $0-$450
difficulty: 3 for installation, 3 if you try to port it yourself, very time consuming to do yourself
approx. wheel HP: 5-8
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1-0.15 sec
comment: Intake manifold work improves airflow through our intake manifolds (which have very long runners with a sand cast finish), yielding more top end power. A port and polish job is typically much cheaper than a manifold that has been Extrude Honed and should give similar results, especially if you do it yourself.


SAFC – Super Air Flow Converter
Cost: $200-$310
Difficulty: 3
approx. wheel HP: 8
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.15 sec
comment: A SAFC will allow control of the air/fuel mixture. With proper tuning some significant gains can be made with a SAFC, but improper tuning can cause serious engine damage. A standalone computer at this point might be a better idea if you plan on some very SERIOUS modifications in the future.


after market computer (instead of SAFC) – (typically an AFX race computer)
Cost: $370-$500
Difficulty: 1 for plug and play computer
approx. wheel HP: 10-15
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.20 or possibly more
comment: An after market computer will improve the car’s air/fuel mixture and ignition timing, improving power without the guesswork of tuning a SAFC. While it has the advantages of ease of installation and it does not need to be tuned (which is probably perfect for most people); certain applications might require the tuning ability of an SAFC. A standalone computer at this point might be a better idea if you plan on some very SERIOUS modifications in the future. Some specific valve train upgrades might be needed to handle repeated use at the higher than stock rev limiter provided by an aftermarket computer.


stage 4:


high flow catalytic converter or test pipe
cost: $50-$200
difficulty: 2
approx. wheel HP: 2-5
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.05-0.1 sec
comment: Reduces (or removes completely) the restriction in the exhaust caused by the catalytic converter. Not a very effective modification if done before this stage. A test pipe is cheaper than a high flow cat and will give noticeably more power, but is illegal on the street.

throttle body
cost: $0-$100
difficulty: 1, 5 if you bore it yourself
approx. wheel HP: 5
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1 sec if used with a cold air intake and a ported/polished intake manifold
comment: Reduces restriction caused by throttle body and increases power in the upper RPM range. It also greatly increases throttle response. Can be done much earlier than stage 4 if you desire more throttle response, but typically does not improve HP much until other supporting mods are in place. This is because improvements to other parts of your intake path earlier on are more effective, as the throttle body isn’t the major restriction in the intake path.




I guess these are the things I would be refering too as minor. IT seems you would be able to reach atleast 30 - 40 more HP with these mods. THen after this maybe do cam's, which yes I do have someone that will work on my stuff cheap. So I don't think that would be a big deal.

These mods listed would be approx $1,500. Turbo looks like it would be around 2,000 at the very least not to mention another 1,000 for install and other upgrades. Unfortuanatly the people that I have to do the cams and such aren't familur with the turbo so, that would be costly.

I do believe this would get me up to about 150 WHP, but I am just making judgement off of the numbers listed... Do you think those are accurate?

 

[scirio]

Looks like you can get about 50 - 80 with bolt-ons and minor internals...

Yeah, no. You cant just slap a whp # on a product. I have meaningless baby bolt ons and I have LOST torque and added maybe 2 whp. Dont believe everything you read for fact.

I guess these are the things I would be refering too as minor. IT seems you would be able to reach atleast 30 - 40 more HP with these mods.

Again. No. p&p you head, intake mani, exhaust mani or buy a cheap header cuz it really doesnt matter, get a little CAI.That should exhaust your budget for nor then get back to us when youve donr that. Oh and a Modern Performance TB would do nicely to. oversized valves, THEN cams, 2.4 bottom end and then turbo it if you want a beast, safc and be done with it.

after market computer (instead of SAFC) – (typically an AFX race computer)
Cost: $370-$500
Difficulty: 1 for plug and play computer
approx. wheel HP: 10-15

This may be but it only works with 2G n/a's made in 1997, No other year's 2g's will work with it.

 

[billy b]

Yeah, no. You cant just slap a whp # on a product. I have meaningless baby bolt ons and I have LOST torque and added maybe 2 whp. Dont believe everything you read for fact

Wow, that is pretty crazy. I was reading an artical from Import Tuner.com in the power pages...they did a CAI, Header, and Catback. They gained 5 hp and 9 TQ. Then did cam gears and gained another 5 HP and 7 TQ. I know that is not much but they are gains, that is crazy you have a loss....

 

[aliczander]

see this is how it works buddie, each mod you do builds on the one before it, sure you can get up to x amount of hp from a single mod but the supporting mods work off of each other to build that.. you get what im trying to say here???? with a full built motor your going to get the maximum out evey mod u have

 

[miamieclipse]

Wow, that is pretty crazy. I was reading an artical from Import Tuner.com in the power pages...they did a CAI, Header, and Catback. They gained 5 hp and 9 TQ. Then did cam gears and gained another 5 HP and 7 TQ. I know that is not much but they are gains, that is crazy you have a loss....

Not all engines react the same to the same mods, i.e. you put cai, header, headerback exhaust on a h22 and it wont be the same as if you did it to a 420a...Its like comparing apples to oranges.

That modification guide posted above that you got from 2gnt.com is old.......i don't mean dont do what it says becasue it's a VERY helpful guide i am just saying the whp is an estimate and if you add it all together you will realize just that.

The af/x ecu is made for a 97 sp, I have seen however someone from a 96 run it on their car (don't know how exactly)....

scirio: What mods have you done that you are loosing tq and only received 2hp in return?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy13
i got 119 hp and 106 of tourqe when i dynoed 3 weeks ago.It was also 97 deegres in the shop dough,and my car has 130kmiles

No offense ... but I'm just curious. Why did you even bother dynoing that?

Because it was a cheap dyno day, and he wanted to see how it ran. Speedy you ran it at how many degrees? Wow mine ran warmer than that....too bad you missed jimmy's 355whp run ...(PS Speedy, i took my air filter off when i got home and it was dirtier than chris (gsgoinfast) 's mom :thumbdown hehe IM JUST KIDDING CHRIS (Oh and my plugs were gone too)

 

[Doug99RS]

I applogize if this is a re-post but I didn't see it....

You didn't see the stickied post that had 195 posts, 27,000 views labeled "How much horsepower can the 2gnt handle"?

 

[miamieclipse]

Guess he just missed that one

 

[billy b]

That thread refered to add on turbo. I am not looking to add turbo....

 

[billy b]

You didn't see the stickied post that had 195 posts, 27,000 views labeled "How much horsepower can the 2gnt handle"?

So how much WHP you getting out of your car bro? I checked out your profile, that's a nice setup. That is about what I wanna do, have you taken it to dyno or track?

 

[Doug99RS]

My car got me to Wyoming and back in 5 days, has never seen a roll-back and never left me on the side of the road. That's all that really matters.

 

[billy b]

THat's the reason I don't want to really do Turbo or Nitrous. Because I don't wanna jepordize it's reliablity... Nice setup either way man.

 

[speedy13]

Not all engines react the same to the same mods, i.e. you put cai, header, headerback exhaust on a h22 and it wont be the same as if you did it to a 420a...Its like comparing apples to oranges.

That modification guide posted above that you got from 2gnt.com is old.......i don't mean dont do what it says becasue it's a VERY helpful guide i am just saying the whp is an estimate and if you add it all together you will realize just that.

The af/x ecu is made for a 97 sp, I have seen however someone from a 96 run it on their car (don't know how exactly)....

scirio: What mods have you done that you are loosing tq and only received 2hp in return?



Because it was a cheap dyno day, and he wanted to see how it ran. Speedy you ran it at how many degrees? Wow mine ran warmer than that....too bad you missed jimmy's 355whp run ...(PS Speedy, i took my air filter off when i got home and it was dirtier than chris (gsgoinfast) 's mom :thumbdown hehe IM JUST KIDDING CHRIS (Oh and my plugs were gone too)

Thanks mike yeah thats basicly right.so next is port matching my intake manifold and see if i can gain a little more.after that cams?cam gears?this is my first dsm,and i couldn't find a turbo model at the time,i needed a car to go to work so i bought it,know i can't stop thinking of how to mod it.I'm 26 now,so in a year or 2 i'll buy a gst/gsx, or sell my soul for an evo(just kiddin god) and one of those will be my midlife crisis car