all-motor

[1fastRS]

i have a 95 non-turbo, and at first i was going to build the engine and turbo it. now i'm thinking about going all motor because its cheaper, and mostly because its different. no my question is, what kind of power could i get out of the 420A w/o a turbo? i'm still going to fully build the engine, but i was wondering how high i sould raise the compression. this is going to be a daily driver, and i want it to be reliable. i was hoping for 200whp, or close to. is this possible? also what kind of times could i excpect in the 1/4 mile? would the mid 13's be possible? any help would be great.

 

[bones_420_99]

mid 13's might not be possible and as far as compression goes you really have only a few options. i would suggest checking out howell automotive and look at their bottem end rebuild kits. they give you all the options that you need for rebuild.

 

[Ballin' GS]

Originally posted by 1fastRS
i have a 95 non-turbo, and at first i was going to build the engine and turbo it. now i'm thinking about going all motor because its cheaper

ahahhaahhhahahahahahahahahahahaa, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, aaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahahhaa, hahahahahhahahahahahahahahhaha. oh man.... good one, thanks i needed that.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Dude people get turbo kits because its CHEAPER hp. to get 200 whp from our 420a.... well maybe a few people have done it all motor, and ya know what? They could have spent money and just bought a stage 2 turbo kit and got it tuned... AND still had ALOT of money leftover to build the motor with a stroker kit and have alot of room left for more hp potential. You are making a huge mistake by not going turbo. get a turbo kit and get that hp alot cheaper, and have room to expand later on.

 

[top_end95]

Ballin' GS is correct.

Research more into the all-motor setup before you make any decisions.

 

[Gary 420A RS]

turbo charged 420a engines can handle alot of boost.. i got a friend that boosted his GS and he can out run the turbo eclipse... upgrade your pistons and connecting rods and turbo the car and stronger clutch you should be straight.. then do the rest little by little. but the connecting rods and the pistons are the weak point in the 420 engines. so do that and you should be straight... but about being different.. i dont know about going all motor with 12 som compressing.? go for it i would rather have a boosted than high comp..

 

[Gary 420A RS]

below is a message from the guys at hrc (Hahns Race Craft)......



We do not recoomend going over 9 psi with the stock internals. Believe me the 420 a has so much potential, the only weak link in these cars are the connecting rods and pistons, once you have replaced those the sky is the limit. We have produced over 700 hp with an unported head and the only engine modification being rods and pistons. You can expect approx. 275 hp. at the flywheel and figure about a 10-15 percent loss through the drivetrain to the wheels with stock internals. Both intercoolers are very efficiant just the front mount will provide a little cooler air intake temps.

hopefully that will help... the stage 2 turbo is about 3400.00 plus the fromt mount intercooler option which is an extra 800.00 but its worth every penny.. so look into that it would be a better option. vs/ looking for high comp parts which would basicly work the hell out of your car. 240 to the wheels is not hard to obtain but you can definatly squeeze more than that if you want. you can definatly be different by boosting more than the next guy....

 

[1fastRS]

i'm going to build the motor no matter what. if i boost it, which i most likely will, i'm going to run 8.5:1 compression. i will also have a fully matched ported and polished head, intake manifold, and throttle body. i'll have at least a 3 angle valve job, and new cams. how much boost/hp do you think i could run safely with these mods? also how much can the hahn kit produce? that uses the big 16G right?

 

[Gary 420A RS]

you've got either the 16g or you can go bigger with the 20g turbo. but port and polishing is good but over worked... that should be one of the last things you do to sqeeze that extra hp out of it... not realy nessasary for producing hp. with the 20g your looking at about 250-275hp. with between 7-10psi. now thats on a stock motor.. buy some pistons roughly about $500.00 and some connecting rods about $700.00 and you can boost to levels around 20 plus. and expecting around 300 to 400hp. i know on a 20g turbo my we experienced a dyno run of 295 at the wheel. but we needed to do alittle more maintnance with the fuel preasure. but building the engine is a process. easy but money hungry. list to get:

1.HRC Stage 2 kit with 20g option and FMIC- $3900.00 (250-275hp)
2.JE Piston Rods- $450.00
3.Crower Rods- $700.00

After having just that alone you can get roughly 300 to 400 hp

 

[AEMEclipse140]

im going all motor for now unless i spray later i have less than 1000 miles on my new built motor and cant wait to be able to punch it.

 

[1fastRS]

Originally posted by AEMEclipse140
im going all motor for now unless i spray later i have less than 1000 miles on my new built motor and cant wait to be able to punch it.

what kind of horsepower are you pushing? whats your compression?

 

[AEMEclipse140]

i dont know how much im pushin im running 10.5:1 with other mods i cant do much till about 2k more miles

 

[Gary 420A RS]

What’s the fastest all motor eclipse you have ever seen? Seriously I hear it all the time about people going all-motor, preaty soon your going to hit that point where you cant get it any faster. Your going to see another eclipse that wears the RS or GS logo and he’s going to blow by you and your going to wish you didn’t spend all that money for what you did. Then you would have to start all over to go boost. Once you got speed it’s addicting you get some and you want more. It doesn’t stop. Anyone who has a boosted car will know. Trying to get those extra pounds to hold. Go all motor if that’s your thing but if you ask around your going to get more turbo heads than people telling you to go high comp.

 

[qwall]

Originally posted by 1fastRS
i'm going to build the motor no matter what. if i boost it, which i most likely will, i'm going to run 8.5:1 compression. i will also have a fully matched ported and polished head, intake manifold, and throttle body. i'll have at least a 3 angle valve job, and new cams. how much boost/hp do you think i could run safely with these mods? also how much can the hahn kit produce? that uses the big 16G right?

If you're gonna go with 8.5:1 compression then it's best to boost it. Lower compression on n/a cars mean loss of power. Just so you know every shop will rebuild your head with 3 angle valve job, if you want better results go with 5 angle or even 7 ( a lot more money thou). Power output will depend on how well your car is tuned.

Gary420ars: go to dsmtimes.org, look up fastest fwd and look at #159.

 

[Gary 420A RS]

i looked at this one and this is the one i liked...

#9
10.871@ 135.70mph

98 Eclipse RS HRC Super20g YES Bill Hahn Jr. Hahn Race Craft

thats the same thing iam working for...

 

[qwall]

you were asking for fastest all motor....

 

[Gary 420A RS]

i know i didnt realy like that so i scrolled and found another one...

 

[dr1665]

When did all motor become the cheapest way to go? I'm about to drop about 5 large into this thing and be lucky to put down 200 to the wheels! .

I'n not going all motor not to be the fastest car in the land. I know that won't happen, but if Dominic says he's free during "those 10 seconds or less," then I'll have 50% more freedom than him on every pass.

If you want the fastest car for the buck, I say you go turbo. If you want to be one of maybe 3 NTs breaking into the 14s without a turbo or nitrous, keep on trucking with the all motor plans. Better to be the fastest all motor NT in the 14s than just another trubo-kitted 420a running similar times imo...

 

[andymoraitis]

I think there's something to be said for being unique instead of following the crowd. A great deal of one's decision rests in what you really want and expect from the car.

As an example, my 95 N/T was purchased after I traded in a T/STK 325 WHP 95 Cobra. You can bet your shorts that I rode that poor Eclipse silly since going from a car that ran 12.50's to one that runs low 15's is a big change. In the six years since I've had the car (I bought it in 1998) I've come to appreciate different things than the speed aspect. Among these are reliability, excellent driveability, handling and a body shape that I still find beautiful after so many years despite the need for a paint job.

I suppose what I'm getting at it what I alluded to earlier; I'd rather be a bit slower and really learn to wring the most from the car than add a turbo so that I can keep up. I don't race at the track anymore and I don't bother street racing all that much (I do enjoy some 0-70 runs), but the greatest fun for me comes from spanking people through a thorough understanding of how to really drive the most our of the car. A coupe of years in competitive drag racing will certainly give you lessons that are portable to anything you'll drive.

Nope, I don't see a turbo in my future, but I might see a very sweet 12.5:1 high compression motor that'll run with the same reliability that my current 420A does. I'll take unique over fast any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[Fez1085]

Plus girls normally dont know jack about cars.. so if it looks nice.. thats all that really matters to them.. chicks man.. its all about the chicks..

 

[clownface]

Originally posted by andymoraitis
I think there's something to be said for being unique instead of following the crowd. A great deal of one's decision rests in what you really want and expect from the car.

As an example, my 95 N/T was purchased after I traded in a T/STK 325 WHP 95 Cobra. You can bet your shorts that I rode that poor Eclipse silly since going from a car that ran 12.50's to one that runs low 15's is a big change. In the six years since I've had the car (I bought it in 1998) I've come to appreciate different things than the speed aspect. Among these are reliability, excellent driveability, handling and a body shape that I still find beautiful after so many years despite the need for a paint job.

I suppose what I'm getting at it what I alluded to earlier; I'd rather be a bit slower and really learn to wring the most from the car than add a turbo so that I can keep up. I don't race at the track anymore and I don't bother street racing all that much (I do enjoy some 0-70 runs), but the greatest fun for me comes from spanking people through a thorough understanding of how to really drive the most our of the car. A coupe of years in competitive drag racing will certainly give you lessons that are portable to anything you'll drive.

Nope, I don't see a turbo in my future, but I might see a very sweet 12.5:1 high compression motor that'll run with the same reliability that my current 420A does. I'll take unique over fast any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

i didnt know a NT DSM with some bolt ons would run a low 15, hey but i guess you learn something everyday hu? What makes you think uping the compression 12.5:1 would give you the same reliability as a stock engine?

 

[andymoraitis]

Originally posted by clownface
i didnt know a NT DSM with some bolt ons would run a low 15, hey but i guess you learn something everyday hu? What makes you think uping the compression 12.5:1 would give you the same reliability as a stock engine?

YOU may not be able to drive an NT with some bolt ons to a low 15 (no offense intended), but I don't doubt that I can. 600 dragstrip passes and two years of competitive racing will teach you something (as I mentioned above).

Regarding compression, if the motor is well assembled, has forged internals and is maintained properly, why would three points of compression affect reliability? Spraying or adding a turbo on top of 12.5:1 would be something that would shorten engine life, but I have no plans to do so.

Hope that helps

 

[andymoraitis]

Originally posted by Fez1085
Plus girls normally dont know jack about cars.. so if it looks nice.. thats all that really matters to them.. chicks man.. its all about the chicks..

Too late for me Fez, I'm already married BUT she really loves the ride anyway

 

[AEMEclipse140]

I went up to 10.5:1 wisecos with eagle rods with other mods when my track opens up ill see what i run if im not satisfied ill spray.

 

[clownface]

Originally posted by andymoraitis
YOU may not be able to drive an NT with some bolt ons to a low 15 (no offense intended), but I don't doubt that I can. 600 dragstrip passes and two years of competitive racing will teach you something (as I mentioned above).

Regarding compression, if the motor is well assembled, has forged internals and is maintained properly, why would three points of compression affect reliability? Spraying or adding a turbo on top of 12.5:1 would be something that would shorten engine life, but I have no plans to do so.

Hope that helps

yeah well i dont think thats gonna happen, in fact it just sounds sorta stupid, if your mod list is right, if you drive it really good like you say your going to and in fact you are mr. drag race, you might be looking at mid-high 16's, maybe, if not slower. You gotta think 150 or so crank HP on a heavy car only takes you so far man. Well you might have a very reliable engine after that but i dunno if it would be as reliable as the stock engine, in fact i dout it. i bet since you think your gonna run low 15s on that car then if you had a GST with a K&N and a exhaust you would think you would run low 13s, haha. :thumbdown

 

[billy mack]

please expect to pay 10-15 g's on a all motor nut car.
you cant just go to hahn's site and buy parts, you have to build your own stuff, and test and tune...

but good luck