Finding tdc and balancer mark.

[AL92]

I assume the the balancer notch should point to tdc when you have tdc on number 1.I have my cam gear notches aligned but the notch on the balancer is not pointing to tdc.Its counterclockwise about the 10 oclock position.Can the cam gears align at other than tdc on number 1 so maybe I just need to turn the engine over a bit more or is is possible my balancer has slipped that much that the mark is that far off? My engine seems to run fine although don't have much low end.No funny knocks or anything.Is this slipping a common thing with these balancers car does have 130,000 miles on it and assume original balancer.
The balancer is keyed it appears so can't see it being installed wrong.I had it off to take out oil filter housing a month or so ago.

Also can't you set timing with a logger rather than a timing light.? and would it should 5 degrees or 8 with plug not grounded?Why does my timing show like 13 at idle.Does this mean its got too much advance.? Or you can't go by the logger just the timing light?

 

[Lunch_Box]

I believe everything lines up every 7 rotations so just keep tunring the crank until all of the timing marks line up.

 

[steve]

Guys,

The crank pulley is attached to the crankshaft. Every time the crank timing mark (the one behind the sprocket) lines up the one on the crank pulley (balancer) should line up with the marks on the cover. If it doesn't then the crank pulley is fubar.
Now the crank rotates twice for one rotation of the cams. So if the cam dowels are up and the cam timing marks align when the crank timing mark aligns you are at TDC cyl 1. Again, the crank pulley mark better match TDC on the cover or the crank pulley is fubar.
Yes, it can take up to 6 revolutions of the crank to line up the crank, cams, and oil pump timing marks but for checking the crank pulley the only one that matters is the that the crank timing mark is correct.
You can't use the cam timing marks as a reference unless you are absolutely sure that the timing belt is correct and even if it is, a minor mismatch trying to line up the cams results in twice the error at the crank.

Also can't you set timing with a logger rather than a timing light.? Or you can't go by the logger just the timing light?

No, you can't set the ignition timing using the logger. You must use a timing light.

Steve

 

[ADrewzki]

Also can't you set timing with a logger rather than a timing light.? and would it should 5 degrees or 8 with plug not grounded?Why does my timing show like 13 at idle.Does this mean its got too much advance.? Or you can't go by the logger just the timing light?

Like steve said, you cannot set timing with a logger. You MUST ground the plug on the firewall or the ECU will try to compensate your changes. Then use the timing light to see where your timing is.

 

[Defiant]

If your harmonic balancer (oh, fifth mention today. So far.) is blown, the timing mark can wander wherever it want to. To confirm TDC, pull the #1 or #4 spark plug and use a pencil riding on the piston to show you when it's topped.

 

[sherwinz28]

I hate to bring this back from the dead but can you just use #4 piston at the top as being TDC rather then #1. I believe thats what I did when I set the timing belt.

Thanks,
Sherwin

 

[steve]

I hate to bring this back from the dead but can you just use #4 piston at the top as being TDC rather then #1. I believe thats what I did when I set the timing belt.

When 4 is up 1 is also up. Both are at TDC but once you set the cams marks according to spec your making 1 at TDC compression stroke and 4 TDC exhaust stroke.

Steve

 

[AWD Lox]

Like steve said, you cannot set timing with a logger. You MUST ground the plug on the firewall or the ECU will try to compensate your changes. Then use the timing light to see where your timing is.

I know this is going to sound stupid, but in order to ground that plug do you just connect an alligator clip from the negative battery cable to the plug?? Thanks

 

[steve]

In order to ground that plug do you just connect an alligator clip from the negative battery cable to the plug?

That works as does connecting to a clean bolt in the firewall. The whole car chassis is ground.

Steve

 

[sherwinz28]

When 4 is up 1 is also up. Both are at TDC but once you set the cams marks according to spec your making 1 at TDC compression stroke and 4 TDC exhaust stroke.

Steve

So is it correct to do it this way? I am trying to figure out why I am getting 10 psi vacuum.

 

[steve]

So is it correct to do it this way?

Did you understand what I wrote?

Your a registered member, that implies you have more than a rookie's understanding of how things work.

If the crank is made so that piston 1 and piston 4 go up and down together and pistons 2 & 3 also go up and down together but are opposite (180 degrees) 1 & 4, what makes the difference between 1 & 4 if both are up? Reputation points are on the line.

Steve

 

[sherwinz28]

Damn I hate getting quized. My guess would be that it doesn't matter if I'm using 1 or 4 since both are at TDC but 1 is on the compression and the other is on the exhaust. I was just wondering if it made a difference in timing if I used 1 or 4 since you wrote "1 at TDC compression stroke and 4 TDC exhaust stroke".

P.S. Don't make me a noob I just didn't know the difference between being on the exhuast stroke or the compression stroke making a difference in timing. I think I'll read over the haynes just to make sure.

 

[steve]

Close enough. Since both pistons at at TDC when the crank timing mark is aligned, it's where you position the cams that makes cylinder 1 at what we normally think of as TDC. It just finished compressing the air/fuel mix, fired it's plug and beginning to push through the power stroke.
When the cams have both dowel pins facing up and the timing marks aligned you have made the correct cam timing relative to crank timing. So your question about doing this using cyl 4 vs cyl 1 doesn't make much sense.

The hard part is making sure the the cam marks are flush with the mating surface of the head/rocker cover because you can't really look dead on. If it's not exactly right your cam timing is going to be off, not only in relation to the crank but to each other.

Normally we tell people to use a metal straightedge between the centers of the two cam bolts but I just saw a picture a few days ago where someone put it under the rocker cover flush with the head and sticking out of the opening of the exhaust cam that was good enough to let you see if the marks were above or below where they should be.

Here it is.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Steve

 

[Defiant]

Okay... now how in that picture is that other timing mark not lining up with the edge of the head? WTF

 

[steve]

Okay... now how in that picture is that other timing mark not lining up with the edge of the head? WTF

On 1G's the cam sprockets are interchangeable between exhaust and intake. Since the exhaust cam is normally 3 degrees 5 mins advanced compared to the intake the marks aren't exactly 180 degrees apart. The outer marks don't line up with the head. The mark you pointed out would be the timing mark when used on the exhaust cam.

Steve

 

[Defiant]

Egad. Just when I start to think I have all the goofy trivia about these dopey cars sorted out.

Thanks

 

[DSM1G90]

(Three years later ---) When I did my "T-belt", I took the mirror out of the car and laid it across in front of the cam sprockets so I can see the reflection of where the marks are to be at across the top of the block and that helped in making certain of all being aligned up.