The Truth on Cam Advertised Duration, Etc.

[GRAVEDIGGER]

Was just sent this. AMS breakdown on the cam analyzer.

http://amsperformance.com/attachments/article/69/TURP-080700-CAM-056-063.pdf

Really good read here! Thanks for sharing.

 

[keltalon]

Was just sent this. AMS breakdown on the cam analyzer.

http://amsperformance.com/attachments/article/69/TURP-080700-CAM-056-063.pdf

So how is your car performing with all this information you been working on this top secret set up for over 2 years! What's up with this new comp turbo that is suppose to be godsend to the turbo world? You posted awhile back and the forum been waiting! Blowing Wolfe tickets.........

 

[spoolin ddub]

So how is your car performing with all this information you been working on this top secret set up for over 2 years! What's up with this new comp turbo that is suppose to be godsend to the turbo world? You posted awhile back and the forum been waiting! Blowing Wolfe tickets.........

My car performing just fine . Come on down to the 1/2 mile event and see first hand .

 

[keltalon]

My car performing just fine . Come on down to the 1/2 mile event and see first hand .

Well it's been said you blew up your engine trying to spin it to 11000 left oil all over the track. Lol I am not bastard dsm I will race you anywhere any day all that bling bling don't phase me one bit. You have always been about running that mouth with nothing to show!! Most guys here have already peeped you a long time ago and you wonder why no one here likes you!

 

[spoolin ddub]

Well it's been said you blew up your engine trying to spin it to 11000 left oil all over the track. Lol

Nope. engines not blown and hasn't even been out of the car. What does that have to do with you coming to see yourself or about cams? Ceedawg going to try to come. But all that's irrelevant. Keep my post on topic .

 

[keltalon]

Nope. engines not blown and hasn't even been out of the car. What does that have to do with you coming to see yourself? Ceedawg is going to try to come.

dude
I will be attending the 1/2 mile here in Atlanta no need to come to Chicago

 

[spoolin ddub]

Really good read here! Thanks for sharing.

No prob. you are very welcome. That's the purpose of the site right? To share info.

 

[keltalon]

No prob. you are very welcome. That's the purpose of the site right? To share info.

Lol!

 

[spoolin ddub]

Update and a damn good read!. February 2014 issue of dsport magazine. They themselves just did a unbiased evo cam showcase. Part 1 only showed a few cams that were tested and all the other cams will be shown in part 2! They show the real duration (cam pro analyzer) vs advertised and also dyno'd them. I linked pics of the article. Which shows the kelford 264, 272, and 280 real cam data!!!!!! Down to the volumetric efficiency of the cams.....throughout the rpm range!!!


http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn290/spoolinddub/ada1f101-7b89-4651-8694-f4ad8cd9254e.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn290/spoolinddub/c3a84390-6556-44f1-9781-49af0bde5586.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn290/spoolinddub/ce746586-130f-4a25-8e82-9ae659b54e8b.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn290/spoolinddub/02340f3d-a89d-4cc6-b175-e8a31cea976b.jpg

 

[spoolin ddub]

Forgot to mention. There was a total of 18 different cams tested!! Part 2 will have the other 14.

 

[TalonSpeed]

Kelford cams are solid performers.

 

[keltalon]

Kelford cams are solid performers.

Yeah I must say kelford and gsc leads the pack. In my cam test delta kelford copy was a beast of a cam and made more he than all the cams I tested! But they were Imo too big for my street/strip daily driver in which I represent 90% of the forum. We want the most he we can get out of cams but at the same time we want our families to enjoy riding in our car without complaints. The drag racer will never entertain riding his family in a roll cage, gas smelling, I can't drive you 200 miles in a day hobby car! Most here wants a compromise between comfort for family and power which I am an advocate of which explains my simple 653 daily family driven setup which average 335 miles a tank of gas! This has been my objective from day one to help the daily driver. Big cams comes with a price. Each person has to choose do I want a comfortal daily driver with at least 650 horsepower or a 900 horsepower be a beast with no comfort at all or I want to drive it comfortably daily!

 

[keltalon]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Example of daily driven eclipse small lift short duration bc 272 cam 500 lbs torque 4800rmp only time wife don't like the car is when its at full throttle. Lol!

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[TalonSpeed]

Yeah I must say kelford and gsc leads the pack. In my cam test delta kelford copy was a beast of a cam and made more he than all the cams I tested! But they were Imo too big for my street/strip daily driver in which I represent 90% of the forum. We want the most he we can get out of cams but at the same time we want our families to enjoy riding in our car without complaints. The drag racer will never entertain riding his family in a roll cage, gas smelling, I can't drive you 200 miles in a day hobby car! Most here wants a compromise between comfort for family and power which I am an advocate of which explains my simple 653 daily family driven setup which average 335 miles a tank of gas! This has been my objective from day one to help the daily driver. Big cams comes with a price. Each person has to choose do I want a comfortal daily driver with at least 650 horsepower or a 900 horsepower be a beast with no comfort at all or I want to drive it comfortably daily!

I think the kelford 272s on a 2.3 is the perfect setup. Kelfords\GSC have a good idle, not much bottom end loss, but top end power better than most. I have Kelfords waiting to install. My HKS 264 ilde like stock and fall flat after 6200.

 

[spoolin ddub]

Personally i feel all cams have a place. It's all about the setup and the cars purpose. I see alot of people who have a problem with Bc but one of My boys with an evo II was running bc 280 for years with no issues. His dyno like keltalon is also on BC site. I do not know exactly what the other 14 cams are but that's a lot of damn data!. I can honestly say that article is by far the best and most informative article on cams I have ever seen and the results should be very interesting!

 

[spoolin ddub]

Ok I got the Dsport with all the cams. It has some very good info but not all of it is applicable because not all Evo cams have the same specs as dsm. The only ones I know that are same are Kelford, GSC, COMP Cam, and Tomei. They put alot of work into this test so I am not going to put the specs. Go out and get the mag. Here are what they tested. My theory of stating advertised duration not being correct compared to similar cams are proven on a few cams. Some of the results are very surprising.


Comp 264
HKS 272
Comp 272
Kel 264
Cosworth M1
Comp 280
GSC S2
Kel 272
Tomei 270
Buschur 272
Jun 272
Tomei 280
GSC R2
Kel 280
GSC S3
Tomei 290

 

[keltalon]

I asked brian crower why they were not on the list and dustin response was this "Although we advertise with the magazine they contacted us at the last minute and wanted us to rush ship some sets of cams to be tested and the time frame to get the cams to them was unreasonable and on top of that they wanted us to pay 2000.00 which was somewhat absurd therefore we declined"

I would have love to seen their cams in the line up

 

[92AWDHX40]

Yes kel didn't see the bc cams in the review, but thanks for the input on which one ill be grabbing soon.

 

[keltalon]

Yes kel didn't see the bc cams in the review, but thanks for the input on which one ill be grabbing soon.

No problem I am still waiting to test these new 276 276 it will be 6 months before I can get my hands on a set. Daggummitt. I went to buy the magazine today and it was sold out! wow

 

[spoolin ddub]

The not to long ago revised GSC S3 cams shit all over Kelford 280's . But the smaller advertised duration 226/226 Kelford 272 not only makes more power than the larger advertised duration 230/230 GSC S2 but wouldn't you know The Kelford 272 actually has more real duration!!! Damn.

 

[keltalon]

The not to long ago revised GSC S3 cams shit all over Kelford 280's . But the smaller advertised duration 226/226 Kelford 272 not only shits on the larger advertised duration 230/230 GSC S2. But wouldn't you know The Kelford 272 actually has more real duration!!! Damn.

That's Interesting Because BC Is Going Smaller also on advertised duration.

 

[spoolin ddub]

That's Interesting Because BC Is Going Smaller also on advertised duration.

that is a perfect example of what I have been saying through out this thread. BC is going smaller on the advertised duration. Think about that comment. They can go as small as they want. But that doesn't necessarily mean the real duration at the cam will be smaller....and I highly doubt it will . That particular situation would then make another perfect example of why I say you just can't go off the advertised specs.


I seen what I needed to see from the test. Now I have a accurate idea where the FFWD King Kams sit.

Oh and the Tomei 280's almost mirror the GCS S3 in performance. Its crazy .

 

[keltalon]

that is a perfect example of what I have been saying through out this thread. BC can go smaller on the advertised duration. But think about that comment. What since does that make? That doesn't necessarily mean the real duration at the cam will be smaller....and I highly doubt it will . That particular situation would then make another example of why I say you just can't go off the advertised specs.


I seen what I needed to see from the test. Now I have a accurate idea where the FFWD King Kams sit.

Oh and the Tomei 280's mirror the GCS S3 in performance. Its crazy .

Well it makes a lot of sense. I spoke with dustin all 3 stages of their turbo cams has been redesigned with a smaller physical duration which in terms leads to a smaller advertised duration. the lifts of the cams however is higher which means the cams actual duration or dwell point in degrees has been shorten according to dustin but with a higher lift. the the valve has a greater opening and closing ramp speed. In other word the cams design changed from a low lift long duration to a high lift short duration cam which will work better for the turbo application. This in my experience helps to tune the cam gears for minimum overlap considering turbo cars perform better with less overlap especially in high performance street applications. I think this is a great move! Initial test on an evo x were amazing I can't wait to test the 276 276 in my car!

 

[spoolin ddub]

Well it makes a lot of sense. I spoke with dustin all 3 stages of their turbo cams has been redesigned with a smaller physical duration which in terms leads to a smaller advertised duration. the lifts of the cams however is higher which means the cams actual duration or dwell point in degrees has been shorten according to dustin but with a higher lift. the the valve has a greater opening and closing ramp speed. In other word the cams design changed from a low lift long duration to a high lift short duration cam which will work better for the turbo application. This in my experience helps to tune the cam gears for minimum overlap considering turbo cars perform better with less overlap especially in high performance street applications. I think this is a great move! Initial test on an evo x were amazing I can't wait to test the 276 276 in my car!

I doubt the real duration will be smaller than what it already is. Would have been nice to see the real numbers vs what they will be advertised as.

 

[keltalon]

I doubt the real duration will be smaller than what it already is. Would have been nice to see the real numbers vs what they the advertised.

Okay you know more than Brian crower, the maker of the cam ,in what the did to their own cam design. I just can't wait to test them. Lol