Can't escape DSM problems....

[spyderdrifter]

So, yeah. Only days after getting my baby up and running, it's down yet again. This time it's worse. What's the tell-tale, without a doubt, sure way to know I spun a bearing¿ was heading to pick up a friend, got there, just rev'd the engine once, not hard at all, and when I went into reverse, all I got was a really bad sound like something loose inside the engine. I'm now leaking a little oil from the oil pump, and cyl 3 has an oil leak too. I pulled the valve cover to find nothing unusual, which is how I looked at the pistons, through spark plug wells. I'm lost on this one. Never spun a bearing or had anything loose inside an engine before..

 

[spyderdrifter]

Thanks guys, will be draining and dropping the oil pan, then sift through with my magnet. Will be looking at the bearings and oil pump/ front case as well. Igluna, I replaced the gasket just for the sake of being able to know the age of it, same as with the timing belt. Didn't want to go through the hassle of replacing the water pump and have one of the others go out soon after. Just a preventive measure on my part.

 

[WES_393]

One other thing to check before you tear off the pan: Make sure your crank pulley is still bolted on tight. I had mine nearly fall off while driving down the road which made it thump against the engine bay. It sounded very much like a spun bearing, but only took a 12mm wrench and a few minutes to fix.

 

[spyderdrifter]

One other thing to check before you tear off the pan: Make sure your crank pulley is still bolted on tight. I had mine nearly fall off while driving down the road which made it thump against the engine bay. It sounded very much like a spun bearing, but only took a 12mm wrench and a few minutes to fix.

Good call. I had a similar problem on my last Spyder, but I broke the crank pulley. Car should be home shortly. Just got her on the trailer. I'll definitely check that out first.

 

[rEclipserGST]

Check for shaft play in & out, side to side on turbo.

Check the harmonic balancer (crank pulley). Could be bolted on tight, but the rubber could have separated in the inside. Must remove to inspect.

I probably would have pulled the head before the oil pan honestly. Either way, on to the next.

Check to make sure the rockers & lifters are functional. Pitting on pistons & other obvious signs of abnormal wear.

Check flywheel & pressure plate even. Bolts caught in there could make terrible noise.

 

[spyderdrifter]

Well, my rear balance shaft sprocket didn't have the bolt in place and bored a hole through the timing cover, which explains the scrapping sound I had, which cause the timing to jump. I can move my intake cam by hand even with the timing belt on, so my valves are most likely shot. Pulling my engine out tomorrow and tearing it down to see what all is damaged. Upgrades will soon follow along with a trip to the machine shop.

 

[WES_393]

That rear sprocket also drives the oil pump. Unfortunately the engine might have been starved of oil while this was happening. I'd pull the head to inspect damage to the valves and drop the pan to check for shavings. No need to yank the engine just yet.

If you need some new valves let me know, I have some spares rolling around in the shop.

 

[spyderdrifter]

Thanks for the offer, I still have a set of good ones from my last build, or at least I was told they were good by the machine shop. Might just get a second opinion on that. I'll let you know if my spares are bad after all. I'll drop the own and pull the head after work tomorrow. I think I'm gonna need a new rear sprocket too. I'll find out for sure tomorrow as well, but from what it looked like, it's probably in bad shape now. Don't think I'll be spending all night doing all this anymore, definitely need more sleep to avoid this crap I've been over looking.

 

[spyderdrifter]

Got the head pulled off tonight, but I don't know if the valves are bent. The pistons look okay, but I think my timing belt is done, it's starting to fray on the inboard edge. Sucks that there's only 150-ish miles on it. There was no mixing of the oil and coolant. Gotta replace the oil sprocket too. Gonna pull the oil pan tomorrow after work, drained it tonight. Here are a few pics.

 

[DSM1G90]

Looks like the top end was saved, but bet when you drop the pan that when you grab a connecting rod, you might find some vertical and lateral play in which bearings were spun due to oil starvation when the pump spocket wasn't turning.

 

[spyderdrifter]

Yeah, you're probably right. Will find out sooner than I though. Called my boss because I woke up late for work, turns out I don't have to work today after all, so I got more time with my car.

Last year when I rebuilt my last DSM, I upgraded my pistons to .020 over Wiesco's. I don't remember there being any movement at all when I tried wiggling them in the cylinders. I tried wiggling them last night and there is the slightest amount of play from side to side when the pistons are at TDC. Is this a normal thing for stock pistons, are should they be completely solid like my last build?

 

[DSM1G90]

Push up and pull down on a connecting rod to see if you have any play .. if so, that's good "rod knock" right there.

 

[spyderdrifter]

Is there a way to check the valves without removing them¿

 

[DSM1G90]

Unless you can seal off each chamber where you can used compressed air to check for air leakage, or lay the thing upside down with sparkplug in place and fill each chamber with oil to see if the oil leaks out.

These would be my two guesses to try without taking it in for professional testing.

 

[WES_393]

Is there a way to check the valves without removing them¿

Pour water or oil into the intake and exhaust ports. If they leak, the valves might be bent or at least need a resurface. If no leaks then the valves are good.

 

[DSMTyson]

Unless you can seal off each chamber where you can used compressed air to check for air leakage, or lay the thing upside down with sparkplug in place and fill each chamber with oil to see if the oil leaks out.

These would be my two guesses to try without taking it in for professional testing.

I use gasoline instead of oil. Its less messy.

 

[spyderdrifter]

Sweet. One more thing to try then.

 

[bryanwheat]

IF the valves are just slightly bent than they can still seal. I've had some that did not appear bent by looking at them or rolling them on the edge of a table. When checked with a dial bore they were definitely out of spec. I would pull them and inspect them.

 

[spyderdrifter]

Finally pulled the oil pan off. Didn't find shavings, but i did find 2 pieces of metal. Don't know what they are, maybe one of you does. Also tried wiggling the rods up and down, no play. Here are some pics... (sorry for crappy quality)

 

[DSM1G90]

Looks like a cotter pin that's seen better days.

 

[spyderdrifter]

Yeah, but I know the oil pan was clear of all debris when I put it back on. So I don't know where these came from.

 

[DSM1G90]

Be shavings off the thrust bearings? Got lateral play with the crankshaft itself? Is this length of metal pliable to bend with the hand, or tempered?

 

[spyderdrifter]

There's no play in the crank at all in any direction, but there is left to right play in the connecting rods, but not up and down play. The two metal pieces are tempered. Which bearing exactly is the thrust bearing? Don't remember off hand.

 

[spyderdrifter]

Is the oil pump part of the front case? As in can't be removed from the front case. If I can get the pump separately from it that would be awesome since I can't find a new case for under $200. Also need a new oil pump sprocket, but can't find anywhere that carries the part. Anyone know where I can buy one? Local salvage yards are not an option on this one. They normally have non-turbo DSMs. The couple turbo ones I've seen over the last 4 years didn't have engines anyway. Are 1Ga 2.0L non-turbo DSMs 6 or 7 bolt and is the sprocket compatible?

 

[GSTurbo1]

could it be crankwalk?

nevermind looks like someone already covered that

 

[H@xtGSX]

Is the oil pump part of the front case? As in can't be removed from the front case. If I can get the pump separately from it that would be awesome since I can't find a new case for under $200. Also need a new oil pump sprocket, but can't find anywhere that carries the part. Anyone know where I can buy one? Local salvage yards are not an option on this one. They normally have non-turbo DSMs. The couple turbo ones I've seen over the last 4 years didn't have engines anyway. Are 1Ga 2.0L non-turbo DSMs 6 or 7 bolt and is the sprocket compatible?

WTF Wow, that sucks.

I believe it is integral to the front casing. I found some new ones from O'Rileys, they just cost about $200, as you have seen. You're going to want to take a good look at the balance shaft bearing inside the block too. I am willing to bet that if the shaft move out that much, it messed up the bearing inside too. You could just do the cheap solution though, and just chop the balance shaft off, as detailed in the "free balace shaft removal" article in the tech section. You'll just need to plug the oiling hole. The oil pump on the n/t 4g63's is the same, but good luck at finding one of those. Maybe from a Galant or Huyndai, but I've never seen anything but 420a's in US N/T DSM's. I think you're likely just going to have to bite the bullet and get a new pump assembly if that one stripped the teeth. I wouldn't risk using a used oil pump from an unknown source. That could very well end up causing even more trouble. I just had my motor out of the car last weekend to rebuild the bottom end after it crank walked, and the balance shaft is pretty long. You will have to drop the motor down pretty low for the assembly to clear the chassis at the wheel well. Personally, if I were in your situation, I would pull the motor out and get it on a stand, just because the parts you're going to be replacing are all a pain in the ass to get to in the engine bay. It'd probably take just as long to do all that crap in the car as it would to get the motor out and do it, and it's sooooo much easier to make sure everything is right and ready for use with the motor out. Plus, if there's anything else wrong, it'll be a lot easier to spot it. We all know that it's easy to miss something when you're headlamp batteries are dying, the garage lighting sucks ass, and it's night time (you know this is going to wind up being one of those things that goes into the night shift). Much safer to have it all easily accessable, so you can check everything and make SURE it's bolted down, tightened up, and tensioned right.

... That's what I would do anyhow. I've had to take out the transmission and motor out enough times now that I have it down to a few hours with impact tools though, so take that into account.