REAR LSD insert / no bolt design

[jtmcinder]

OP: a Ferguson AWD (as we have) often has a VC in the center and a VC in the rear for exactly the reason that this thread is focused on: to keep the car from getting stuck. You don't need one in the front, because the front end is heavy, as you already mentioned, yourself.

If all you want is to not get stuck, then just add a rear VC (since that's easy) and be done with it. Note that this is actually better in many cases than a helical or a clutch-pack, since a helical requires some grip on both ends and a modified clutch-pack must be transmitting some torque in order to lock.

Stay away from anything like an insert. They are pure evil.

I don't know if Mr PopUps is being pig-headed or whether his posts match his understanding exactly, but he needs to be ignored. Clearly, slapping doesn't work, so let's just stop replying.

 

[Mr PopUps]

I just don't understand why you are talking about towing and the center diff viscous coupler when it wasn't mentioned at all in the thread.

He talked about the sticker, and that not the reason for not towing theses cars. Thats the only reason.

i towed a 98 gsx from Indiana to Texas it ad no vicious lsd but it had the bfb and i took the drive shaft off and i put the front tires on a dully so the rear where on the ground. which it had no drive shaft and its running perfect.

Exactly.

Mr. PopUps

I have no idea how you got so off track. I haven't gotten the chance to read all the useless SH*IT you posted in my thread but I'm talking about traction in snow, remember, I live in MONTANA where we get 1-2ft of snow. Obviously these cars have low clearance and it's easy to get high centered. I know I don't have an LSD axle front or rear. With that said, I only have 1 wheel drive on the front and one on the back, WHILST being high centered. So I want an LSD in the rear to solve this problem. The way I see it is, the FWD vehicles have the benefit of the weight of the engine keeping traction on the front axle, while the rear axle has less weight. That's why I choose the rear LSD axle. I also don't want to tear into my expensive ShepTrans, either.

I want to know the easiest way to get LSD in the rear, since most go with LSD in the front. But from the helpful info. from everyone else, I think I might go with an EVO differential. I didn't mean to be sarcastic or a dick in my earlier post but you clearly posted misinformation. I'm still open to any HELPFUL info you have to give me but just don't give me an attitude about it.

Ok, now i can answer your question, because you supplied MORE information.

Having an LSD wont help you if you get the body stuck on snow/ice.

I have driven one of these in high enough snow that it was pushing up onto the hood as i drive, car had no difficulty navigating one bit.

I have also driven on 6" of snow that had 3" of ice on it in a car that had H&R Race Springs (1.5"~ drop) and although i dont count it as being stuck (because the car moved on its own power), it did take 20 mins or 1st and reverse wrangling to get out of that parking lot. I dove in to help a FWD car that got stuck and almost got stuck myself. The reason this happened it the ice was strong enough to hold the car up just enough that the tires were only skimming the pavement.

So, having an LSD wont 'keep you from getting stuck', which is why i asked if you have had it HAPPEN TO YOU, or you want to keep it from happening. If youre simply worried about it, i would wait till it happens to you, then fix the problem.

If anything i would take some AL angle and make a wide angle V out of it as an under body scraper, doesnt need to be huge, just where it hangs about an 1" down to scrape off enough snow to keep the body from getting parked on it. You can mount it perm or make it removable.

 

[bryanwheat]

He talked about the sticker, and that not the reason for not towing theses cars. Thats the only reason.



Exactly.



Ok, now i can answer your question, because you supplied MORE information.

Having an LSD wont help you if you get the body stuck on snow/ice.

I have driven one of these in high enough snow that it was pushing up onto the hood as i drive, car had no difficulty navigating one bit.

I have also driven on 6" of snow that had 3" of ice on it in a car that had H&R Race Springs (1.5"~ drop) and although i dont count it as being stuck (because the car moved on its own power), it did take 20 mins or 1st and reverse wrangling to get out of that parking lot. I dove in to help a FWD car that got stuck and almost got stuck myself. The reason this happened it the ice was strong enough to hold the car up just enough that the tires were only skimming the pavement.

So, having an LSD wont 'keep you from getting stuck', which is why i asked if you have had it HAPPEN TO YOU, or you want to keep it from happening. If youre simply worried about it, i would wait till it happens to you, then fix the problem.

If anything i would take some AL angle and make a wide angle V out of it as an under body scraper, doesnt need to be huge, just where it hangs about an 1" down to scrape off enough snow to keep the body from getting parked on it. You can mount it perm or make it removable.

The sticker was talked about because it indicated whether or not the car has a rear limited slip differential. The sticker has nothing to do with towing the car, or the center v/c. The sticker is just an indication that the car has a limited slip differential rear diff from the factory, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[jtmcinder]

But, but, but, the only thing I know is that you can't tow a car with a center VC with one end on the ground and I want to post something....

 

[NHerron]

Ok, now i can answer your question, because you supplied MORE information.

Thanks for the input, I know you are on your free time here

But I don't know what additional info I gave you, I figured it was pretty easy to see what I was talking about in my first post ...

Having an LSD wont help you if you get the body stuck on snow/ice.

I don't know about that, I know I said there is a lot of snow here but I really doubt the entire body will get hung up and ALL 4 WHEELS off the ground. At least 2 wheels will be on the ground and once again, that's why I want more traction odds with LSD in the lightweight rear axle. I don't know how much simpler I can be with that ?

If anything i would take some AL angle and make a wide angle V out of it as an under body scraper, doesnt need to be huge, just where it hangs about an 1" down to scrape off enough snow to keep the body from getting parked on it. You can mount it perm or make it removable.

I think that's a good idea and would work but I would have to think about that one...I don't know if I could pull that off in a stylish car
Also, what about speed bumps? Wouldn't that scrape?

If all you want is to not get stuck, then just add a rear VC (since that's easy) and be done with it.

That's understandable but the EVO diff is the same amount of work to swap and I also have read the VC eventually wears out over time while the EVO diff is fairly rebuildable. Please correct me if I'm wrong though

Note that this is actually better in many cases than a helical or a clutch-pack, since a helical requires some grip on both ends and a modified clutch-pack must be transmitting some torque in order to lock.

CLUTCH-I was under the impression that it's always locked until a pressure overcomes springs/discs and lets the wheel slow down, such as during a turn. I was thinking if I was high centered in snow with only one wheel of that LSD axle planted with traction, it wouldn't be nearly enough pressure to crack to an open diff

While the viscous is open until a speed differential locks it. I forget how that works during a turn though

Stay away from anything like an insert. They are pure evil.

Yeah I can't even get a hold of someone to ask if they make it for the rear. I'm also not a big fan of cutting corners with a cheap solution.

 

[Mr PopUps]

Thanks for the input, I know you are on your free time here

But I don't know what additional info I gave you, I figured it was pretty easy to see what I was talking about in my first post ...



I don't know about that, I know I said there is a lot of snow here but I really doubt the entire body will get hung up and ALL 4 WHEELS off the ground. At least 2 wheels will be on the ground and once again, that's why I want more traction odds with LSD in the lightweight rear axle. I don't know how much simpler I can be with that ?

In your first post it sounded to me like you wanted to build a 'rally' car with the whole "mud slipping/climber" comment, and since you didnt say "hey i want to keep my car from getting hung up in the snow, will an LSD help me" or something like that i could only answer how i perceived your post. You know, diff'rent strokes thing, i say poe-TAT-o, you say puh-TOT-o.

Its possible if youre going fast enough (like i was into that parking lot) that you can get hung up, i know it happened to me. I cant answer for the speed bump issue though, we dont have enough around here to worry about. Like i said an inch or so is all you would need, and maybe only in front of each front wheel, you could hide it well enough and the AL wouldnt rust and is cheap enough to replace once a year if you had to. SAAB does/did something similar on their old 900 series, not sure if thats what they were for, but it made sense to think thats what they were for.

 

[jtmcinder]

That's understandable but the EVO diff is the same amount of work to swap and I also have read the VC eventually wears out over time while the EVO diff is fairly rebuildable. Please correct me if I'm wrong though

I suppose they wear out, but the rear VC doesn't actually do much work very often, so it will probably last long enough.

CLUTCH-I was under the impression that it's always locked until a pressure overcomes springs/discs and lets the wheel slow down, such as during a turn. I was thinking if I was high centered in snow with only one wheel of that LSD axle planted with traction, it wouldn't be nearly enough pressure to crack to an open diff

While the viscous is open until a speed differential locks it. I forget how that works during a turn though

Yeah, most clutch-packs have some preload, so I suppose that isn't the best argument against them. But if the preload isn't enough to get you unstuck, you're, well, stuck, because you won't be able to put enough torque through it to get it to lock any more. Seriously, a working VC is rather good at getting you out of a snowbank. They key is to not wimp out. You stay on it until it heats up and starts working both wheels. A lot of people give up too soon, never get the thing working, and then complain about how lousy VCs are.

With all that said, if you occasional drive seriously on pavement, the Evo diff will be better. My suggestion of a VC is mostly if you want something aimed at getting unstuck.

 

[1990AWD]

I don't feel like reading all this thread but I speak from experience driving a 1g with a LSD rear one winter and another without the LSD the next, and it is day to night difference between the cars. The LSD makes the car a freaking tank, plowing snow and never getting stuck while being quite tail happy and the non-LSD, while still capable, it would under steer a lot more and at times spin one front and one rear.

GET A LSD!

 

[NHerron]

Hey guys, quick question

I have a manual 97' GSX with the BFB non-lsd rear

I found a guy selling a 2G auto LSD rear, it's just the pumpkin, no axles

I know the end ratios are different. Is there a way to fit the 2G auto LSD diff into my 2G manual setup by swapping internals/reshim?

Do I need the passenger LSD axle?

Thanks, I couldn't find the answer around

 

[black_gst]

Hey guys, quick question

I have a manual 97' GSX with the BFB non-lsd rear

I found a guy selling a 2G auto LSD rear, it's just the pumpkin, no axles

I know the end ratios are different. Is there a way to fit the 2G auto LSD diff into my 2G manual setup by swapping internals/reshim?

Do I need the passenger LSD axle?

Thanks, I couldn't find the answer around

If it was possible im sure you would have to swap the ring and pinion gears from your non lsd housing

and i actually dont know if that will work, but if it did you would need the passenger rear axle


and how does mrpopups have over 300 post. it looks like he should be banned by now with the his stupid posts let alone the bad info

 

[NHerron]

I actually did find out last night some info that non lsd axles are different from lsd axles. Like a different spline count, but can someone confirm that?

I dont know what MrPoppers deal is but there is nothing but trouble when he drops by in a thread

 

[NHerron]

Still looking for confirmation on the swap, do I need both axle assemblies or just the one passenger side assembly? I decided to go with the stock LSD BFH diff and would very much appreciate someone with recent experience on the swap confirming the info that I'm looking for

To recap, manual trans 97' GSX with stock BFB (non-LSD) diff. I want to swap out for the BFH (VC-syle LSD) diff

I hope to make an article of the swap so any useful info would be just awesome. Thanks and happy holidays