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Degreeing in a cam without adjustable gears?

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forcefed86

15+ Year Contributor
1,007
12
May 23, 2006
wichita, Kansas
Just wondering if anyone uses the offset bushings like below to degree in cams? Extremely standard practice in small block v8's.

Just looking strictly at the cost POV. I'd like to retard my exhaust cam a few degrees but have a hard time dishing out the 300 dollars for a set of adjustable cam gears.

Amazon.com: Competition Cams 4760 Cam Degree Bushing: Automotive
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Thanks, I'm aware of that method. But to say one method is "right" while all others are wrong is a pretty broad statement.

You can degree in the cam just the same with bushings. I've done it many many times, but not on a DSM product.

Looking more closely at the OEM cams this won't work, so never mind.
 
I'm not sure how this would work since the cams and cam gears have a locating pin.

It is kind of like cam degreeing a V8. They have dowels as well, you have to drill out the hole on the gear itself so it can move on the car and install bushings like the one pictures but smaller. I have not seen these yet for DSM's. Like having an eccentric on the cam like we have in our rear suspension.

** If you move the gear a tooth it can cause valve to piston contact. These are interference motors. **
 
Basically you are making the hole bigger that goes over the dowel so the gear can move with the cam remaining stationary.
 
Basically you are making the hole bigger that goes over the dowel so the gear can move with the cam remaining stationary.

Then the offsets push the camshaft forward or backward.

The only real problem I could see is that there are adjustable cam gears for less than $200 that don't require the removal of the cam gear to adjust the phasing. If nobody makes those, then they'll have to be custom done and by the time you're done machining the stock cam gear and getting those made, you may as well have adjustable ones that are easier to work with.
 
Then the offsets push the camshaft forward or backward.

The only real problem I could see is that there are adjustable cam gears for less than $200 that don't require the removal of the cam gear to adjust the phasing. If nobody makes those, then they'll have to be custom done and by the time you're done machining the stock cam gear and getting those made, you may as well have adjustable ones that are easier to work with.

The bushing doesn't go on the cam it goes over the dowel. The gear is still centered on the cam with the bolt.
 
You just have to be looking for deals, and be ready to buy when they become available.

I picked up the Hayame adjustable gears that are going on my AWD from a closeout deal on eBay. They were $85 shipped, brand new-in-box. They're a *10* on the bling chart, and they're a hell of a lot easier than fumbling around small degree bushings.
 
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Yea your all right, it would probably be cheaper in the long run to just run the adjustable gears. Just an idea!


couldnt you just move the exhaust cam gear one way a couple teeth?

A "couple teeth" would be a massive change. I'm running the BC stage II cam (272). So they are pretty horrible to start with. Usually requiring around a 5* adjustment. U may get by with 1 tooth, but you'd have to be really careful.

Anyone know how many degrees of offset 1 tooth equals?
 
Yea your all right, it would probably be cheaper in the long run to just run the adjustable gears. Just an idea!




A "couple teeth" would be a massive change. I'm running the BC stage II cam (272). So they are pretty horrible to start with. Usually requiring around a 5* adjustment. U may get by with 1 tooth, but you'd have to be really careful.

Anyone know how many degrees of offset 1 tooth equals?

I think that the cam gears have 48 teeth so one tooth would be 7.5 deg. Dont quote me on the number of teeth. Just take 360 and divide by the number of teeth and that will give you the answer.
 
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It's a neat idea but not worth the headache with what adjustable gears cost.

Coming from the man who decided to do a compound turbo setup as opposed to just a big single. This should be a cakewalk LOL.
 
So when you degree a cam you are still infact rotating the cam to make it exatcly at TDC with the timing marks on everything else. I'm assuming it would only really be a partial tooth adjustment which is why you can't just rotate the cam a tooth on it's own. Am I correct on this statement?
 
I had my FP2's degreed on the stock cam gears, it doesn't take very long either. I was really glad I did too because they were a decent bit out of time and I noticed the difference big time. There's a guy in Florida who is currently making kits for people to do it themselves. He's very active on another DSM forum I'm on but I don't believe he's on here. If anyone wants some more info they can pm me.
 
So when you degree a cam you are still infact rotating the cam to make it exatcly at TDC with the timing marks on everything else. I'm assuming it would only really be a partial tooth adjustment which is why you can't just rotate the cam a tooth on it's own. Am I correct on this statement?
Correct. Degreeing a camshaft is rotating the cam ever so slightly without moving the cam gear or any other part of the rotating assembly. It's usually a partial tooth adjustment (typically 1-5 degrees which is less than 1 tooth).

I had my FP2's degreed on the stock cam gears, it doesn't take very long either. I was really glad I did too because they were a decent bit out of time and I noticed the difference big time. There's a guy in Florida who is currently making kits for people to do it themselves. He's very active on another DSM forum I'm on but I don't believe he's on here. If anyone wants some more info they can pm me.
I'd like to know how you degreed your cams with stock gears.
 
The guy in Florida would be me. I have built a system to degree OEM cam gears using eccentric bushings. I can adjust the cams in the vehicle 1G and 2G without removing the timing belt. With this system there is no chance of the bolts working loose and the gear slipping time and the eccentrics can be changed quite quickly. Here are some photos.
The basic tools.
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A machined guide.
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Slide the gear out and install shim to hold it.
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Lock the gear and remove the alignment pin.
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Drill the pin hole to fit the bushing.
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Remove shim and push the gear back on cam.
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Install bushing.
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Install bolt.
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I can get 9 deg adjustment each way at 1 deg intervals.
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I have done 5 cars now and plan on doing many more. I have machined 150 bushings and updated my tooling from the above. I don't have any updated photos.
When I get enough posts I'll show off my TMIC in my 1G.
Mike
 
Speak of the devil Mike! I'm glad you showed up because you can explain it waaaay better than me LOL. Mike very generously degreed my cams for me, and I know for a fact I got the power I did in part because the cams were degreed! Thanks again Mike!
 
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