AEM UEGO issue replacing narrow band

[NeoZer0]

I replaced my narrow band with my AEM UEGO, its installed just before my Cat. I hooked the white wire from the AEM to pin 4 on my ECU but I'm not reading any voltage via my logger. Is there anything else I need to do to enable the voltage output on my AEM?

 

[Black_Bullet]

I replaced my narrow band with my AEM UEGO, its installed just before my Cat. I hooked the white wire from the AEM to pin 4 on my ECU but I'm not reading any voltage via my logger. Is there anything else I need to do to enable the voltage output on my AEM?

I think the purple wire is for what you are talking about.

I just got/ and installed my AEM UEGO WBO2, and its working great and looks nice.
I took out my stock o2 sensor in the o2 housing and put the WBO2 in there, and just hooked the white wire to pin4 and the red and black ground obviously, and then just set the mode and was good to go!

Tuning is so much more detailed and easier now.

 

[matt98eclipse]

I just got/ and installed my AEM UEGO WBO2, and its working great and looks nice.
I took out my stock o2 sensor in the o2 housing and put the WBO2 in there, and just hooked the white wire to pin4 and the red and black ground obviously, and then just set the mode and was good to go!

Tuning is so much more detailed and easier now.[/QUOTE]



Jay so your not running a factory o2 sensor anymore? You just replaced it with the WBO2 sensor?

 

[C_Keagy]

As far as I can remember reading you keep your stock O2 sensor. You use the wideband as a separate means of reading a a/f ratio. I would not use it and hack it into the ecu. The ecu can not read "wideband" signals as wideband. If that makes sence to you.

Normal people just have the gauge and log it with dsmlink/pocket logger. I never read where that it says that you can replace your stock O2 with a WB.

 

[Black_Bullet]

As far as I can remember reading you keep your stock O2 sensor. You use the wideband as a separate means of reading a a/f ratio. I would not use it and hack it into the ecu. The ecu can not read "wideband" signals as wideband. If that makes sence to you.

Normal people just have the gauge and log it with dsmlink/pocket logger. I never read where that it says that you can replace your stock O2 with a WB.

Yea Idk, I mean I always heard you drill/ tap your o2 sensor into the exhaust somewhere with a bung, and leave the stock o2 be, but I tried it anyways, I just took out the stock o2 sensor and put the wideband in there and connected it as I said above and the car was fine, no check engine lights or anything, I guess since the white wire is going to PIN4 it still has a signal to the ecu, and obviously the ecu doesnt think nothing negatively of the Wideband sensor vs the narrow band...

Since I have a gm maft in blow thru, I still have a tiny bit of tuning to do on my fuel trims but I got WOT dialed in pretty good with my eprom chip and thats about it...

Now that i think of it, Its probably reading pretty accurately that close up in to the cyl. head, since some ppl are mounting their WBO2 way down stream in the DP's some where, and I hear its more exact the closer to the turbo...

 

[matt98eclipse]

As far as I can remember reading you keep your stock O2 sensor. You use the wideband as a separate means of reading a a/f ratio. I would not use it and hack it into the ecu. The ecu can not read "wideband" signals as wideband. If that makes sence to you.

Normal people just have the gauge and log it with dsmlink/pocket logger. I never read where that it says that you can replace your stock O2 with a WB.

This is what i was thinking cus i have never heard of just takein out your old o2 and replaceing it with a wideband o2. Because how would the ecu see a a/f signal.

 

[illeffekt vr-4]

Having the wideband mounted so close to the turbo/exhaust manifold is not a good idea.
It will dramatically decrease the life span of the sensor. Those sensors need to be several inches from the turbo. Zeitronix for example recommends at least 16" and AEM suggests at least 18" from the exhaust port and on turbocharged cars that will run egt's above 800 degrees Celsius at least 36"away.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Having the wideband mounted so close to the turbo/exhaust manifold is not a good idea.
It will dramatically decrease the life span of the sensor. Those sensors need to be several inches from the turbo. Zeitronix for example recommends at least 16" and AEM suggests at least 18" from the exhaust port and on turbocharged cars that will run egt's above 800 degrees Celsius at least 36"away.

Im not going to argue with that but I know another guy who did the same thing with his wideband as I did on his 2g, and im sure he's had a wideband for over a year with no problems...
Well honest question, why would the stock o2 be fine in that location then, and the WBO2 sensor too close? I mean put how it reads the exhaust gases aside, the actual sensors itself, whats the difference? Is there different material between the two sensors that would cause the stock one to have no problem in that location, and the more expensive "higher" performance WBO2 to be less capable in that location...
I know I could've put that better, but you get my point.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

You need to reinstall your stock o2 sensor back into the o2 housing. The front o2 housing is important to your 'daily driving' needs. Without it, you will see poor response from your car. Your car needs the value from the o2 sensor to properly calculate fuel trims, etc. On top of the fact that even if you wired the WBo2 into the stock o2 circuit, it reads in a different span (hence wide band vs. narrow band - 5V vs. 1V) and the ECU will not compute it.

Weld the bung anywhere after the o2 housing and you should be fine, however, I would recommend after the first bend of the downpipe. I have my WBo2 after the test pipe (half way down the exhaust) and it reads perfect. The system just has to have no leaks.

 

[turboglenn]

Honestly you should be able to set teh AEm to output between a 0 to 1volt and then send teh anolog out to the ECU and use it jsut like a narrow band ( but be much more accurate) I had mine that way for a little while on my haltech, there's no reason it sholdn't work on your ECU and logger... Are you sure teh little switch in the back is set correctly? and that you hooked up the right wire?

you should be using setting "P4" and using the white wire to feed signal to the ECU.... If you're using the blue wire, it's sending data instead of using a linear voltage feed.

 

[JayRolla]

You need to reinstall your stock o2 sensor back into the o2 housing. The front o2 housing is important to your 'daily driving' needs. Without it, you will see poor response from your car. Your car needs the value from the o2 sensor to properly calculate fuel trims, etc. On top of the fact that even if you wired the WBo2 into the stock o2 circuit, it reads in a different span (hence wide band vs. narrow band - 5V vs. 1V) and the ECU will not compute it.

Weld the bung anywhere after the o2 housing and you should be fine, however, I would recommend after the first bend of the downpipe. I have my WBo2 after the test pipe (half way down the exhaust) and it reads perfect. The system just has to have no leaks.

Can you tell me what bad responses the car will give. I have no stock o2 sensor and car runs fine. My brother runs the same way. What is the actual issue or is this just hearsay. Did you ever replace your o2 with a wbo2?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Admittedly, up until glenn posted, I had no idea the AEM UEGO (or rather, wideband o2) sensor was able to be configured as a narrow band output, so I do stand corrected on that. With that being said, I can agree that glenn is correct in his post.

As for adverse effects with running no o2? I've experienced bad gas mileage, crappy throttle response, and overall a worse driving environment versus driving with my front o2 working. When I have time, I'm going to run a log on if STFT changes with the o2 unplugged. If memory serves me well, my previous statement should be correct about fuel trims. I'll post back when I get a chance.

 

[JayRolla]

My fuel trims just sit at 100% if its not installed.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Honestly you should be able to set teh AEm to output between a 0 to 1volt and then send teh anolog out to the ECU and use it jsut like a narrow band ( but be much more accurate) I had mine that way for a little while on my haltech, there's no reason it sholdn't work on your ECU and logger... Are you sure teh little switch in the back is set correctly? and that you hooked up the right wire?

you should be using setting "P4" and using the white wire to feed signal to the ECU.... If you're using the blue wire, it's sending data instead of using a linear voltage feed.

Well I used the white wire and I set the little switch in the back correctly.
I made sure of that.

Admittedly, up until glenn posted, I had no idea the AEM UEGO (or rather, wideband o2) sensor was able to be configured as a narrow band output, so I do stand corrected on that. With that being said, I can agree that glenn is correct in his post.

As for adverse effects with running no o2? I've experienced bad gas mileage, crappy throttle response, and overall a worse driving environment versus driving with my front o2 working. When I have time, I'm going to run a log on if STFT changes with the o2 unplugged. If memory serves me well, my previous statement should be correct about fuel trims. I'll post back when I get a chance.

The car didnt drive any different from when I put the wideband, vs before with the narrow band o2 left in place.
No change in response, or anything... Remember the 1g ecu is a bit different than the 2g ecu and also consider that 1gs only use 1 o2 sensor which is the frnt one, we dont have a 2nd o2 signal in the exhaust stream; so it could be apples and oranges in how the way i used the wideband will affect things between 1g and 2g.

I havent logged fuel trims yet since I installed the WB, but just from viewing the AFR as im driving everything seems fine... It cycles between 14.1 and 15.7 at idle, stays somewhere in the 14's on low throttle cruising situations, as I start climbing rpm and coming on to boost it will slowly drop into the 12s, and then at full throttle it will dip to about 10.7 and immediately come back up and hold anywhere between 10.9-11.3 ...
I wish the end wot afr would stay in one place, but differences in temp and etc, and the fact that Im using a gm maft in blow thru will make it off by a little bit each day.
( Im thinking no more than .3-.4 change in AFR between different temps.)

 

[Black_Bullet]

Is there anyone else who replaced there stock o2 housing with the wbo2?

 

[gsxtasy]

Your stock o2 sensor is what your fuel trims use, and adjust accordingly. Without it, your fuel trims will be maxed positive. That means your ECU is dumping in as much fuel as your trims will allow, this is why you would get poor gas mileage, and other off-throttle driving issues.

Once again, it is ill advised to put it that close to the turbo.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Your stock o2 sensor is what your fuel trims use, and adjust accordingly. Without it, your fuel trims will be maxed positive. That means your ECU is dumping in as much fuel as your trims will allow, this is why you would get poor gas mileage, and other off-throttle driving issues.

Once again, it is ill advised to put it that close to the turbo.

My air fuel ratio is actually normal, and I dont have any off throttle driving issues,
nor does it run any different form when I still had the stock o2 plugged in. I made sure I set the WBO2
on the correct mode.

Honestly you should be able to set teh AEm to output between a 0 to 1volt and then send teh anolog out to the ECU and use it jsut like a narrow band ( but be much more accurate) I had mine that way for a little while on my haltech, there's no reason it sholdn't work on your ECU and logger...

Im aware its ill advised, but im not taking it out till I get the car somewere that does exhaust and that can properly set me up a bung somewhere later in the exhaust stream, therefore Its going to be the way it is for another month or so.

I was just wondering why is it so much more susceptible to damage in that location over the stock o2, and also WHO else has been running their WBO2 in the stock o2 sensors location, and if so, I wanted some input on their experience with the sensors lifespand, or anything else; because as of right now I know of at least two guys whos been running their WBO2s in that location for awhile; I know its not right, but just want an idea of how long they last generally and anything else worth reading...

 

[spyderturbo007]

You could try it with the UEGO, but it's not as straight forward as some of the other sensors. Personally, I woudn't, but that's just me.

If you look at the back of the gauge, you will see a small screw with 5 sections labeled P0, P1, P2, P3 & P4.

P0 = AFR display with 0 - 5v output
P1 = Lambda display with 0 - 5v output
P2 = Same as P1 with a 1 - 2v output
P3 = Emulates Autronic WB sensor output (0 - 1v)
P4 = Emulates Nerst Cell output (0 - .42v)

Here comes the problem.

P0 and P1 use the wrong output voltage of 0 - 5v where the ECU is looking for a 0 - 1v input. The Nerst cell output (P4) is backwards and the wrong range, meaning that with that calibration, 0v is an AFR of 10:1 and 0.42v is an AFR of 18.5:1.

P2 won't work, since once again it's output of 1 - 2v is not the correct range. P3 might, sortof, kindof work.

If you take a look at your manual, you will see the calibration layout for the P3 setting. The problem is, that the sensor only outputs between 0.070 - 0.905v even though AEM labels it as 0 - 1v. So what you might say.....since the ECU only uses the front O2 durning closed loop operation? Well, the problem is that stoch with that calibration is 0.41v and not 0.50v like the ECU expects. So you'll be running at 14.7:1, but the ECU is going to think you are rich and run your FT's up to compensate for the false lean condition.

I would put your stock O2 sensor back in and have a bung welded for the UEGO. The gas you save will more than pay for the labor to weld up the bung.

Did that make sense, because I think I just confused myself.

 

[Black_Bullet]

You could try it with the UEGO, but it's not as straight forward as some of the other sensors. Personally, I woudn't, but that's just me.

If you look at the back of the gauge, you will see a small screw with 5 sections labeled P0, P1, P2, P3 & P4.

P0 = AFR display with 0 - 5v output
P1 = Lambda display with 0 - 5v output
P2 = Same as P1 with a 1 - 2v output
P3 = Emulates Autronic WB sensor output (0 - 1v)
P4 = Emulates Nerst Cell output (0 - .42v)

Here comes the problem.

P0 and P1 use the wrong output voltage of 0 - 5v where the ECU is looking for a 0 - 1v input. The Nerst cell output (P4) is backwards and the wrong range, meaning that with that calibration, 0v is an AFR of 10:1 and 0.42v is an AFR of 18.5:1.

P2 won't work, since once again it's output of 1 - 2v is not the correct range. P3 might, sortof, kindof work.

If you take a look at your manual, you will see the calibration layout for the P3 setting. The problem is, that the sensor only outputs between 0.070 - 0.905v even though AEM labels it as 0 - 1v. So what you might say.....since the ECU only uses the front O2 durning closed loop operation? Well, the problem is that stoch with that calibration is 0.41v and not 0.50v like the ECU expects. So you'll be running at 14.7:1, but the ECU is going to think you are rich and run your FT's up to compensate for the false lean condition.

I would put your stock O2 sensor back in and have a bung welded for the UEGO. The gas you save will more than pay for the labor to weld up the bung.

Did that make sense, because I think I just confused myself.

Thanks for your post, its still helpful except for the fact that I am sort of confused on what your saying, so in p3 the ecu is not seeing the same afr as the wideband is seeing? I tried p4 it acted funny, its currently in p3...

The ecu isnt able to convert the signal over for it to respond to it like the narrow band in that mode? Why didnt I notice any difference in response then? It doesnt appear that Im dumping too much fuel above what my car already burned previously.

I mean, I have a translator and a chipped ecu and I have it adjusted to were the AFR's on the wideband all look to be were they should be at in relation to rpm,load; and the only time I see it go rich according to the WBO2 is when I shift or when I first go WOT because I purposely put a richer afr in the chip in the rpms were the 16g spikes.

I havent logged fuel trims yet since I installed the WB, but just from viewing the AFR as im driving everything seems fine... It cycles between 14.1 and 15.7 at idle, stays somewhere in the 14's on low throttle cruising situations, as I start climbing rpm and coming on to boost it will slowly drop into the 12s, and then at full throttle it will dip to about 10.7 and immediately come back up and hold anywhere between 10.9-11.3 ...
I wish the end wot afr would stay in one place, but differences in temp and etc, and the fact that Im using a gm maft in blow thru will make it off by a little bit each day.
( Im thinking no more than .3-.4 change in AFR between different temps.)

From what I was saying there earlier ^ does those AFR's look wrong?

As far as the bung, I was not going to bother with it for at least another 2 weeks. That would be ridiculous if the sensor failed in that short amount of time. Dont get me wrong, I actually planned on doing it anyways, I am one for doing things the right way, but I just dont have the time or money to do it at the momment; every exhaust place around here wants to overcharge even just for simple jobs like that and every 30-40 bucks counts right now. .

Were do I buy a o2 bung for them to weld in anyways?

 

[spyderturbo007]

Thanks for your post, its still helpful except for the fact that I am sort of confused on what your saying, so in p3 the ecu is not seeing the same afr as the wideband is seeing? I tried p4 it acted funny, its currently in p3...

The narrowband sensor outputs a voltage to the ECU between 0.00v and 1v, with a voltage of 0.50 being the stoichometric point of the fuel (AFR -14.7:1).

During closed loop operation, the ECU looks at the voltage of the O2 sensor and based on the feedback, increases or decreases the IDC in an attempt to hit a voltage of 0.50v. The entire point of all this is to provide you with the maximum gas mileage.

Anyway, using the P3 setting, the UEGO outputs a voltage of 0.41v when the AFR is 14.7:1, not 0.50v as the OEM narrowband would. This results in what the ECU sees as a lean condition. In an attempt to correct the false lean condition, the ECU increases the STFT and LTFT in an attempt to get the voltage back to 0.50. Basically, it's going to drop your fuel economy because the ECU is injecting more fuel than needed.

I mean, I have a translator and a chipped ecu and I have it adjusted to were the AFR's on the wideband all look to be were they should be at in relation to rpm,load; and the only time I see it go rich according to the WBO2 is when I shift or when I first go WOT because I purposely put a richer afr in the chip in the rpms were the 16g spikes.

I would see if Jeff can take the calibration of the UEGO and program the ECU's response to voltage so it matches the curve. That would solve the problem.

 

[Black_Bullet]

The narrowband sensor outputs a voltage to the ECU between 0.00v and 1v, with a voltage of 0.50 being the stoichometric point of the fuel (AFR -14.7:1).

During closed loop operation, the ECU looks at the voltage of the O2 sensor and based on the feedback, increases or decreases the IDC in an attempt to hit a voltage of 0.50v. The entire point of all this is to provide you with the maximum gas mileage.

Anyway, using the P3 setting, the UEGO outputs a voltage of 0.41v when the AFR is 14.7:1, not 0.50v as the OEM narrowband would. This results in what the ECU sees as a lean condition. In an attempt to correct the false lean condition, the ECU increases the STFT and LTFT in an attempt to get the voltage back to 0.50. Basically, it's going to drop your fuel economy because the ECU is injecting more fuel than needed.



I would see if Jeff can take the calibration of the UEGO and program the ECU's response to voltage so it matches the curve. That would solve the problem.

Ok, I understand what you are saying, how I saw it was that if the wbo2 seemed to be at the correct ratio per rpm/load then the tune was "OK"... Which it probably is......well, "Ok."

I dont doubt that I am getting a little extra fuel here and there during closed loop.
Hell the fact that I spool this turbo too fast along with a few minor boost leaks, and the fact that I have an improperly setup pcv and no AFPR is probably more of an issue towards my fuel milage than my wbo2 set in narrowband. -13 mpg city and 15-17 hwy gets expensive w/ premium.

I will work on getting a bung welded for the exhaust though for sure.
I have a new o2 housing coming soon since I ordered the punishment one for my external gate, so its all coming apart anyways and I might just use that time to set it up correctly.

And I dont have a Keydiver chip, I use evilscribe and a WillemEprom burner and do my own chipping.
Unfortunanly Id have no idea on how id match the voltage outputs thru the curve though.
But I do have a solution for my dsm problems.... Getting a 2nd car for a DD and parking this shit

 

[Black_Bullet]

Update-

Im getting the bung welded really soon ~
Right now I have the stock o2 back in there.

Ive heard that its better to weld the bung in before the flex due to exhaust escaping out of the flex section ? Thats still pretty close to the turbo, and theres no much room to weld in that short elbow part of the downpipe. Were would be the best place to get the bung welded?

 

[cbrfrenzie]

I replaced my narrow band O2 with Dynojet Wideband commander. The factory narrow band O2 signal is "simulated" from the wide band directly to the ECU. This is actually a preferred method of tuning, as your fuel trims are now being calculated on an ACCURATE reading from your AFR, instead of telling it "I'm rich" or "I'm lean". In essence that is all that happens with the narrow band output on these devices, however they are much more accurate and predictable. In some of these devices you can actually program the switch point of the narrow band output. For instance, if you want your car to run at 13.7:1 AFR for some ODD reason, you could program that as the switch point on the narrow band output, and get your narrow band to switch at 13.7:1 instead of 14.7:1, like a typical narrow band. This comes in handy for squeezing mileage out of my truck.... I own a 95 Chevy 1/2 ton with a 350CI engine. I also have a Wideband Commander on my truck, and have the switch point set at 15.2:1 AFR to try and squeeze every drop of gas out of my tank as possible. It nets me 1.5 MPG in town and 3 MPG on the highway... which is great when i typically run at 11-12 MPG everywhere.

Also note: This sensor will only drive the fuel trims during closed loop ECU operation, however the output should still oscillate around your set switch point at all times.

Hope this helped. Its nice having rock solid fuel trims after tuning

I work at Dynojet Research as an Electrical Engineer. We are currently in the beta testing phase of a NEW wide band, called the Wideband 2. Its MUCH cheaper then our previous model, with all the same features, a higher precision of accuracy as well as sensor deterioration adjustments made real-time, meaning as the sensor starts to die, the controller will detect that and compensate for any error. It also includes altitude adjustment, RPM and TPS data logging on-board, and a MUCH MUCH smaller package. About half the size of a credit card for comparison. I'm installing this unit in my car today to start some testing on the narrow band output, so I will post some pics of this new device as well as my results.

 

[Black_Bullet]

I replaced my narrow band O2 with Dynojet Wideband commander. The factory narrow band O2 signal is "simulated" from the wide band directly to the ECU. This is actually a preferred method of tuning, as your fuel trims are now being calculated on an ACCURATE reading from your AFR, instead of telling it "I'm rich" or "I'm lean". In essence that is all that happens with the narrow band output on these devices, however they are much more accurate and predictable. In some of these devices you can actually program the switch point of the narrow band output. For instance, if you want your car to run at 13.7:1 AFR for some ODD reason, you could program that as the switch point on the narrow band output, and get your narrow band to switch at 13.7:1 instead of 14.7:1, like a typical narrow band. This comes in handy for squeezing mileage out of my truck.... I own a 95 Chevy 1/2 ton with a 350CI engine. I also have a Wideband Commander on my truck, and have the switch point set at 15.2:1 AFR to try and squeeze every drop of gas out of my tank as possible. It nets me 1.5 MPG in town and 3 MPG on the highway... which is great when i typically run at 11-12 MPG everywhere.

Also note: This sensor will only drive the fuel trims during closed loop ECU operation, however the output should still oscillate around your set switch point at all times.

Hope this helped. Its nice having rock solid fuel trims after tuning

I work at Dynojet Research as an Electrical Engineer. We are currently in the beta testing phase of a NEW wide band, called the Wideband 2. Its MUCH cheaper then our previous model, with all the same features, a higher precision of accuracy as well as sensor deterioration adjustments made real-time, meaning as the sensor starts to die, the controller will detect that and compensate for any error. It also includes altitude adjustment, RPM and TPS data logging on-board, and a MUCH MUCH smaller package. About half the size of a credit card for comparison. I'm installing this unit in my car today to start some testing on the narrow band output, so I will post some pics of this new device as well as my results.

Please do, and thanks for all the info.

My friend used to tune his gsx off of wideband tapping into the factorys narrow band signal and altering it. Probably what you were talking about. I would do that after I learn more about it.

 

[JayRolla]

Update-

Im getting the bung welded really soon ~
Right now I have the stock o2 back in there.

Ive heard that its better to weld the bung in before the flex due to exhaust escaping out of the flex section ? Thats still pretty close to the turbo, and theres no much room to weld in that short elbow part of the downpipe. Were would be the best place to get the bung welded?

Yes do it before the flex section. Sometimes people get bad readings because they have a leak from the o2 housing to downpipe. Once I get an exhaust I too will be adding my stock o2 back. But for now its the only place I can put it.