Stuck Throttle Body Shaft Seals

[DSMunknown]

So I have obviously read through the VFAQ, PlymouthLaser.com, and other how-to articles regarding this process. However, I have come across a problem that I don't hear much of. My seals are stuck in the TB.

I know that there are metal casings that hold the seals in place. The problem is when I use a small flathead the seals are not popping out, and the casings are beginning to become damaged. They're not that bad right now, but I don't want to make the situation any worse. In addition, there is no vendor that sells just these casings. (I believe the casings are too specific of a part to be sold as a pair.) When I use the flathead as a fulcrum, all that's happening is the old seals are becoming damaged (who cares) and slowly tearing apart, while there are already a couple spots on both casings where the metal has "ripped" or "torn" on the inside lip, due to the upward force of the flathead.

I have all the parts I need to do a full swap. I would hate for these POS seals and casings the reason I have to either send it out to be rebuilt or buy a rebuilt TB.

A light bulb has just gone off in my head. I could always take apart my old 2G TB and get the metal casings out of there if worse comes to worst. I will give that a shot. For hypothetical sake, let's say I also damage those casings as well. What are some other options to coax the remaining casings out?

 

[Auto RS T]

Does the whiteout line look like stairsteps now?

 

[DSMunknown]

When the plate is closed, yes.

 

[Auto RS T]

Sounds like the spring is only wrapped around once.

The springs wrap around the shaft 2 times.

Are you wrapping both springs at the same time? You don't have to, but it seems to make things a lot less confusing

Try this:

Take the lever, springs, and white plastic piece all off, leaving the TPS metal part and nut on the other end of the shaft

Set the green spring through the hole in the white plastic piece and slide the outer spring on. The rounder end of the spring goes on the TB.

Get your lever ready. Take your small flathead and wrap BOTH the springs at the same time around the shaft, you can stop at the top and rest your hand if you set the screwdriver agaist the protrusion from the top left mounting bolt hole

Then go the next 360*, Get your screwdriver in "the resting spot" (keeping the springs towards the tip of the screwdriver makes them easier to control)

Slide the lever on the shaft and slide the springs from the screwdriver to the lever. You are using the lever to hold the shaft while you slide on the springs. If the white plastic piece does not line up simply twist it into posistion before to tighten it down

 

[DSMunknown]

From no tension in both springs whatsoever, I only turned them about 220 degrees or so.

What are the possible repercussions of not tensioning the springs properly?

 

[romeen]

What are the possible repercussions of not tensioning the springs properly?

It might cause erratic high idle due to not enough spring tension to return the throttle lever/plate to a fully closed position. As heat in the throttle cable jacket builds up it tends to effectively shorten the cable a bit. Then again it could be fine, but I would try to fix this issuse now if possible while the TB is off the car. However, I have removed/replaced just the throttle lever and spring from a mounted TB and it's really not hard if you wan't to try it out with the spring the way it is.

 

[romeen]

From no tension in both springs whatsoever, I only turned them about 220 degrees or so.

Definitely not enough Anthony. I seem to recall about 2 full turns like Jim is saying. Keep on going until the marks line up.

 

[DSMunknown]

As I had stated in post #18, when I make another full revolution the white out line becomes mis-aligned, just in the other direction (as in, the spring is overtightened from its original setting). I think I might just keep it over-tensioned. Again, when I had the spring rotated only once (roughly) the only way I could get the white out lines to align properly was at WOT. It's wierd because I marked the lever, spring, and TB when it was at closed throttle before disassembling the lot.

 

[DSMunknown]

Here it comes Jimbo!

Throw up some photos of what I did wrong.

 

[Auto RS T]

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This is what Anthony's TB looked like when I got it. The springs appeared to be in the correct posistion although Anthony's mark was misaligned. I confirmed the correct spring tension by trying to advance the outer spring forward. I wasn't able to get it fully around again so I knew it was right.

I then disassembled the upper TB and re-assembled from scratch. Putting it together correctly again resulted in the mark being a stairstep instead of a straight line indicating a problem.

I then began unwinding the outer spring to the underside of the lever and this is when the mark lined up. If that spring were to pop off that would be the first place the spring would rest when it tried to unwind. My conclusion is that the spring was marked with the outer spring in the incorrect posistion. No worries Anthony.

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[toojung2die]

As far as the seals go, I got them yesterday and pounded them in today. Wasn't about to take any more for their bullshit.

Did you have any trouble getting the throttle shaft through the seals after you seated them? I remember I couldn't get the shaft through the o-rings without damaging them if I seated them before pushing the shaft through.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

You shouldn't have any issues if you are using the correct ID shaft seals. If you feel resistance, using some grease should help lubricate it. As for the spring tension, I've found a really easy way to wind them. Just use a ziptie and put the two top 'hooks' together, hold the ziptie and wind the actual throttle body (or vice versa). It should take 2 full revolutions for the TB to be wound correctly.

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Oh, if you're wondering what a loose tension does to a TB is that it doesn't return to normal 100% closed during operation. The plate gets 'stuck' at about 5-10% open and idle goes through the roof and you have to pop the hood to manual push the plate back into 0 position. Ask how I know ?

 

[DSMunknown]

Did you have any trouble getting the throttle shaft through the seals after you seated them? I remember I couldn't get the shaft through the o-rings without damaging them if I seated them before pushing the shaft through.

Go back and read through the quotes from Jim I posted up in post #7. Honestly, when the seals started to become crooked I kind of ignored it. Half the seal was already in the correct place on the TB, while the rest of the seal was still out. (This happened both when I put the seals in completely dry and when I lubed them up the second time.) As Jim had said, if one side is being fussy, go to that side and pound it down. I had had enough of the seals giving me issues, so I just forced them in. Even after they were properly sealed, I took the 10mm socket and rubber hammer and banged them a few more times, just for good measure.

I noticed when the seals were in place some of the outside of the seals partially ripped off. If there are a few scabs of rubber flapping around, just take a razor and scrape them off. Just make sure the razor is flush against the metal housing that the seal is going into.

 

[Auto RS T]

Anthony asked me how I knew his throttle plate was installed backwards, I told him I saw an ever so slight gap at the top of his plate when I inspected it even closer.

After removing and upon furthur inspection of the factory 60mm plate. I found the edges to be angled to allow for smooth opening and closing of the TB. If it were installed backwards the very edges of the plate get hung up in the TB bore. Meaning this piece also only goes in one way. In addition, if you look into the TB with the plate installed you will notice it doesn't sit straight up and down. It rest at a slight angle with the top tilted towards the TB elbow.

Here's the visual. This is also the correct way to install it into the TB.

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Edit: If you were too Flip the plate over on a Horizontal axis it could also be installed to work this way. Meaning the dashes would be on the elbow side above the shaft.