Holset Turbos, PART 3

[projecTSI]

Wow. That is VERY impressive!

 

[andy4g63]

Makes me want to go to the dyno right now, but I am going vacation at the end of this month,so it is going to be somewhere in July.
Very nice looking curve.

 

[dsm-onster]

He has a stroker

That doesn't make the turbo flow any more . A 2.0 with enough cam and rpms can do just the same.

Makes me want to go to the dyno right now, but I am going vacation at the end of this month,so it is going to be somewhere in July.
Very nice looking curve.

Yea, the hx40 runs dead nuts with the gt3076r up to 55mph. Then absolutely blows it away. So much more power with no loss in lowend response vs. a much smaller fast spooling BB garrett GT turbo that flows more like an hx35. And the hx40 makes peak power earlier. Maybe he swapped in a stroker at the same time as the hx40 .

I'll ask for a mod list. I think his profile is up to date except for the turbo.

Dsmmike50t, that page works for me. Go to DragSource.com - In Depth Automotive Resource. There on the right, you'll see "Calculators" under "Garage". Apparently the DSM source calculator you linked uses Patrick Hale's formulas, too.

 

[dsmmike50t]

^^Its working now.

 

[Slippi84]

That doesn't make the turbo flow any more . A 2.0 with enough cam and rpms can do just the same.


Yea, the hx40 runs dead nuts with the gt3076r up to 55mph. Then absolutely blows it away. So much more power with no loss in lowend response vs. a much smaller fast spooling BB garrett GT turbo that flows more like an hx35. And the hx40 makes peak power earlier. Maybe he swapped in a stroker at the same time as the hx40 .

I'll ask for a mod list. I think his profile is up to date except for the turbo.

Dsmmike50t, that page works for me. Go to DragSource.com - In Depth Automotive Resource. There on the right, you'll see "Calculators" under "Garage". Apparently the DSM source calculator you linked uses Patrick Hale's formulas, too.

Yes but it won't spool to that kinda power by 4000rpm was my point in saying that.

 

[dsm-onster]

Oh. I see what you were saying.

You know. Several are getting spool by 4000rpms with an hx40 using a 2.0 block and the small BEP housing. The smaller turbo never even really had significantly more power in any range vs. the hx40.

 

[Slippi84]

Oh. I see what you were saying.

You know. Several are getting spool by 4000rpms with an hx40 using a 2.0 block and the small BEP housing. The smaller turbo never even really had significantly more power in any range vs. the hx40.

I think you meant less power but point made none the less. I just don't think it realistic to exspect performance like this power and spool out of a 2.0. This isn't a magical turbo. that would be t67 power with 50 trim spool.

 

[dsm-onster]

No, I did mean **more** power. Take a look at the dynograph. It is a comparison of the gt3076 vs. the hx40. The gt3076r never once had significantly more power than the hx40 no matter where in the rev range. As the rpms rise, the hx40 keeps up in power, then at about the middle just blows it away.

I don't know what this guys spool speed is. All we have is a dynosheet. I'll quote what I said: the hx40 runs dead nuts with the gt3076r up to 55mph (see dyno chart). Then absolutely blows it away. So much more power with no loss in lowend response vs. a much smaller fast spooling BB garrett GT turbo that flows more like an hx35. And the hx40 makes peak power earlier.

It puts out the same power as the smaller gt3076r at the lowend and then just leaves it behind at about the middle of the rev range. Kind of similar to my H1C vs. my small 16g. At 5200rpms, the h1c is flowing about 4 lbs/min more. Identical boost. Identical supporting mods.

I don't mean to put down the gt3076r, but yes the hx40 in the bep housing does look magical when compared to it according to the dynograph. Read the second holset thread. 2.0 with big cams spooling up by 4000rpms with the hx40 in the small bep housing. More than 3 mention their results.

 

[Slippi84]

No, I did mean **more** power. Take a look at the dynograph. It is a comparison of the gt3076 vs. the hx40. The gt3076r never once had significantly more power than the hx40 no matter where in the rev range. As the rpms rise, the hx40 keeps up in power, then at about the middle just blows it away.

I don't know what this guys spool speed is. All we have is a dynosheet. I'll quote what I said: the hx40 runs dead nuts with the gt3076r up to 55mph (see dyno chart). Then absolutely blows it away. So much more power with no loss in lowend response vs. a much smaller fast spooling BB garrett GT turbo that flows more like an hx35. And the hx40 makes peak power earlier.

It puts out the same power as the smaller gt3076r at the lowend and then just leaves it behind at about the middle of the rev range. Kind of similar to my H1C vs. my small 16g. At 5200rpms, the h1c is flowing about 4 lbs/min more. Identical boost. Identical supporting mods.

I don't mean to put down the gt3076r, but yes the hx40 in the bep housing does look magical when compared to it according to the dynograph. Read the second holset thread. 2.0 with big cams spooling up by 4000rpms with the hx40 in the small bep housing. More than 3 mention their results.

h I see what you meant by more power I didn't see wy you would say that. Yeah trust me I'm all about the borg and holset turbos. I odn't doubt in a bolt on housing you can seel that kinda spool but your not gonna have 650whp by 4k in a bolt on housing and 2.0 motor that was my only point.

 

[JWoodley]

h I see what you meant by more power I didn't see wy you would say that. Yeah trust me I'm all about the borg and holset turbos. I odn't doubt in a bolt on housing you can seel that kinda spool but your not gonna have 650whp by 4k in a bolt on housing and 2.0 motor that was my only point.

I got full spool right at 4400ish. This is on a stock 7 bolt with the FP race mani and the internal gate. Probably faster on a non-recirced housing.

Matt, I have my dsmlink junk ready. Hit me up with your email.

 

[Slippi84]

I got full spool right at 4400ish. This is on a stock 7 bolt with the FP race mani and the internal gate. Probably faster on a non-recirced housing.

Matt, I have my dsmlink junk ready. Hit me up with your email.

Ok you guys keep getting caught up in the spool. I don't doubt this turbo can hit full boost by 4500 even 4k in some cases, but how many of you have 650WHP!!!!! by 4k?????? That is my point not the spool characteristics.

 

[Mr Peepers]

All everyone is saying is that it is 650whp capable and spools at around 4k rpm, which in its own right is amazing. No one is saying it makes 650whp BY 4k rpm, which would be 850 ft/lbs of torque and just isn't likely with a turbo 2.0 on just boost.

 

[projecTSI]

Ok you guys keep getting caught up in the spool. I don't doubt this turbo can hit full boost by 4500 even 4k in some cases, but how many of you have 650WHP!!!!! by 4k?????? That is my point not the spool characteristics.

Most likely none.

 

[dsm-onster]

Friends, it's ok. We both confused each other. No issues.

Lets just remain excited about this! After all Matt (Mr. Peepers. I'm not refering to myself in the third person ) said the important matter. Here's a turbo that spools by 4K and is 650whp capable. No expensive divided runner manifold, no 288 cams with expensive dual springs. Just a built stroker block, a SMIM, stock head with streetable cams for a 2.0, enough fuel support, a proper intercooler, and good turbine exhausting.

Here's his mod list quoted directly from him. This is the same setup for the gt3076r.

2.3 stroker motor
eagle rods and weisco pistons 100mm 4g64 crank
hks 272 intake and exhaust cams
stock 2g head
ptt twin disc clutch
dogmisson from magnus motorsports
holset hx40m with .55ar
3inch downpipe into a 4inch exhaust
shearer fabrications t3 exhaust manifold
magnus motorsports intake manifold with q45 thottle body
slowboyracing intercooler
dual bosch 044 fuel pumps -8 fuel feed line
4 1600cc injectors
wolf ems standalone system tuned by waynespeed

I didn't ask what fuel he used. Sorry. But, the hx40 was run at 39psi when it made 650whp. So I doubt it was pumpgas.

For those who want a bolton hx40 now, the above are all the mods you'll be looking at getting down the road to go this far. In addition, you'll have to address the o2 housing and run an external gate for sure. If you have a large enough hx40 compressor wheel, your BOLT ON turbo is likely not the restriction up to 650whp .

Just close your eyes and imagine adding a ported head with larger valves and 280s or 288s. Then adding a .70 a/r BEP housing. Or adding a divided runner manifold and a holset 19cm^2 turbine housing. Matt is getting happy .

J, I sent you a pm.

 

[Slippi84]

All everyone is saying is that it is 650whp capable and spools at around 4k rpm, which in its own right is amazing. No one is saying it makes 650whp BY 4k rpm, which would be 850 ft/lbs of torque and just isn't likely with a turbo 2.0 on just boost.

Ok just wanted to make sure. Anyone else have graphs?

 

[Slippi84]

Friends, it's ok. We both confused each other. No issues.

Lets just remain excited about this! After all Matt (Mr. Peepers. I'm not refering to myself in the third person ) said the important matter. Here's a turbo that spools by 4K and is 650whp capable. No expensive divided runner manifold, no 288 cams with expensive dual springs. Just a built stroker block, a SMIM, enough fuel support, and a proper intercooler.

Here's his mod list quoted directly from him. This is the same setup for the gt3076r.


Just close your eyes and imagine adding a ported head with larger valves and 280s or 288s. Then adding a .70 a/r BEP housing. Matt is getting happy .

I didn't ask what fuel he used. Sorry. But, the hx40 was run at 39psi when it made 650whp. So I doubt it was pumpgas.

J, I sent you a pm.

That is still badass . Garret is living off the name right now if you ask me nothing really overly impressive about Gt tubro's and I have owned one so I can talk.

 

[JWoodley]

Go to youtube and search for "Turbo Sharky".

 

[Slippi84]

Go to youtube and search for "Turbo Sharky".

That car is pretty beast and spool does seem to come on pretty fast. Hell fast enough to lose traction in a hurry. Almost looks like torque .

 

[dsmmike50t]

I was talking to a guy at a shop over here and started talking about 4bolt and 5 bolt garrett housings for the hx40, he claims that he's done it before succesfully. I went ahead and bit the bullit. I'm getting a 4 bolt garrett housing(.82a/r) machined to fit my hx40. Yes I know spool up might be bad, but to be honest I dont care. It's all about the top end. Has anyone on here tryed this out.

The reason for trying this is because I got a killer deal on a t3 manifold and when I had a look at the bullseye housing the other day I noticed several cracks on the wastegate hole and where the turbine spins.

 

[dsm-onster]

At least one "turbobrick" (turbo volvo) guy runs a garrett housing with a holset.

Go to youtube and search for "Turbo Sharky".

So after looking at those videos, apparently badman21 (653whp hx40) has a 7blade.

 

[dsmmike50t]

As mentioned above by dsm-onster I forgot to mention on my last post that hes done this on other cars ex. volvo's. The guy runs a nice shop and has tons of experience with the s200 and s300. I almost pissed myself when he showed me an s377 I believe. The s377 beside my holset was like a 14b beside a holset. WTF

I know I might still have some block clearence issues but well see.

 

[Steve93Talon]

I was talking to a guy at a shop over here and started talking about 4bolt and 5 bolt garrett housings for the hx40, he claims that he's done it before succesfully. I went ahead and bit the bullit. I'm getting a 4 bolt garrett housing(.82a/r) machined to fit my hx40. Yes I know spool up might be bad, but to be honest I dont care. It's all about the top end. Has anyone on here tryed this out.
.

Why not just buy the .70 T3 housing that's already available for the HX40? A guy just ran 9.9 @ 149 on an S366 using that housing, I'd imagine it'll support anything the HX40 compressor is capable of producing. I ran the .70 on my S258 which is pretty similar in size to the HX40 and I saw 30psi by 4700.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Why not just buy the .70 T3 housing that's already available for the HX40? A guy just ran 9.9 @ 149 on an S366 using that housing, I'd imagine it'll support anything the HX40 compressor is capable of producing. I ran the .70 on my S258 which is pretty similar in size to the HX40 and I saw 30psi by 4700.

Yup, BEP does have a T3 0.70 A/R housing for the HX40. I just sent my turbo back back to them to replace the Mitsubishi .55 A/R housing. I can't wait to see how it'll perform or if it will produced more power than 650whp with a decent spool time compare to the Mitsubishi .55 A/R housing.

 

[dsm-onster]

The .63 a/r housing which is very close to the same scroll shape/size as the small bep housing can be had for next to nothing. A whole blown t3 on ebay can be had for less than $100. With a 5 bolt flange and some elbows you're in business, since there's no flapper arm hole incorperated in the housing. How much does the machining cost? And how much is fabbing up your own o2 housing worth to you? You'll get the chance to make a much better flowing o2 housing.

Don't get me wrong. I adore the bep housings. I run one. But because I didn't have the time to buy/fab a t3 flanged exhaust manifold. I wanted to bolt on and go. Worth it to me for sure! But with a hole already there in a cheap t3 turbine housing for an external gate on a fabbed o2 housing, much more turbine housing sizes open up to you and you get to start with a good size (.63 a/r) to begin with. You can even go down to a .48 a/r for next to nothing (same price as a .63 a/r). And have even faster spool for your hx40!

 

[dsmmike50t]

Its been tough deciding which housing to get, but like I mentioned above I bit the bullit and I hope to get what I've been expecting from the hx40. The reason I didn't get the .70 is because of shipping time. Like I metioned above I got a killer deal on a t3 manifold and my old bullseye housing has several cracks in the turbine area and around the wastegate. The only reason I noticed this was because I was swapping my cracked 1g mani with another one the other day and snapped two bolts. I removed the turbine housing and to my surprise it has cracked all over.

Dsm-onster your right the housings are cheap the guy I know can get a brand new .82 housing for around 180 plus shipping. The garrett t3 housing was used for two weeks and ran me 150 and machining was 50, so 200 for a new housing with more potential really caugth my attention. The 02 housing fab job will run me between 100-150 and thats it. The oil lines, intake and intercooler pipes might need some cutting but thats no biggy. I could have gone with the .70 housing but the guy at the shop suggested the .82 for this size turbo. If spool up is horrible I can always change over to a smaller one, he had a .63 one around and was willing to let it go for 100.

Some pics

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Also forgot to mention that I compared the hx40 with my h1e and yes as Tim Grech mentioned, I think, the turbine wheel on the H1e is 2.3mm shorter than the Hx40 turbine wheel.