Initial S-AFC settings for High/Low- 2g

[kmoore]

cam timing sensor

What about it? You think it's fried? Isn't plugged in? And correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought us 2g's didn't have a cam timing sensor

 

[kmoore]

GOT THAT BASTARD RUNNIN'!!!!

I'm so pumped right now. Today was a warmer day, and before trying to start it today, I pulled the plugs and wiped them off really good. Slapped them back on, and it fired up the first try. A little rough, but it fired up.

It's weird because I really didn't do anything that I didn't do before.

Anyway, I got the first 1k rpm set at -17. And it idles beautifully. A little smokey out the back, but I guess thats to be expected. I only got the 1st 1k rpm point set because I was leaking coolant like crazy, from the radiator, so I had to shut her down.

But, the good news is, is that I let her sit for 5-10 mintues, AND SHE FIRED BACK UP AGAIN!!!

Thanks guys. I will report back when I get the new radiator in and I actually start to tune it, becuase I'm sure I'll have some more questions.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Did you re-gap the plugs before you put them back in? Personally, I would pick up some new NGK's one step colder and throw them in, but then again, I always recommend a fuel filter, air filter cleaning, plugs, wires, etc before tuning. But that's just me.

 

[kmoore]

It's funny that you mention that but I did regap the plugs along with cleaning them. Maybe that did the trick. Still waiting to get this radiator... hopefully tonight.

 

[kmoore]

Alrighty guys. I'm going to bring this back up again.

Today I decided to mess with the FT's now that I got the radiator in. Rev'd each NE point, and adjusted it on the S-AFC.

For 1k= -15
For 2k= -9
For 2,400= -8
For 3k= -8

Does that sound about right?

It was weird because on the 1k NE point, both the STFT and LTFT changed. But, when I got to the 2k, 2400, and 3k NE points, the LTFT did NOT change. The only thing that changed was the STFT- which I then zero'd out. Is this ok?

Edit: Alright so I took it for a drive and I noticed while I was driving that my fuel trims (on my logger) where all over the place. Then at idle, the STFT would be 7 and the LTFT would be 3 sometimes.WTF

Also, can someone explain to me what the correction % is on the S-AFC? I don't get it. Should that % be something on the logger? Also, should those FT fluctuate whiile I'm driving.

And finally, when I pulled it in the garage after the drive, I went back and redid my NE points according to the logger. And the numbers got less:

1k:-13
2k:-6
24h: -4
3k:-3

I'm really confused again.

 

[tominatortwo]

It's funny that you mention that but I did regap the plugs along with cleaning them. Maybe that did the trick. Still waiting to get this radiator... hopefully tonight.

Replace your plugs.

 

[kmoore]

Alright, well I did some more reading tonight on the issue. And supposedly I should be more concerned about the LTFT being at 0 more so than the STFT? And what I have read, I should be more into the negative's as far as AFC settings go. More like negative 17-18 across the LO throttle map.

And how long should I be holding this rev when I am adjusting these FT's?

Finally, should I make any adjustments WHILE I'm driving?

Thanks again, I know this is a pain for you guys.

 

[2gGSX]

Alright, well I did some more reading tonight on the issue. And supposedly I should be more concerned about the LTFT being at 0 more so than the STFT? And what I have read, I should be more into the negative's as far as AFC settings go. More like negative 17-18 across the LO throttle map.

Right, the STFT should *eventually* equilibrate from whatever value it is now, while changing the LTFT corresponding to the airflow you were cruising at. For example, if at idle your STFT is at -5% and your LTFT (in this case LTFT Lo) is at +5%, then given enough time they should both hit zero.

And how long should I be holding this rev when I am adjusting these FT's?

I normally just drive around and review fuel trims later. Getting the car to the required 150hz to enter LTFT Mid requires you to rev pretty high, and is a good way to get complaints from neighbors.

Finally, should I make any adjustments WHILE I'm driving?

No, side-effects of doing this include possible risk of death. And impotence. Death and impotence.

 

[kmoore]

Thanks Tom. Well I messed with it a little more and it seems to be getting better.

I drove around for a bit with those settings listed above and then I got back home and let it idle for about 5 more minutes and checked my FT's. Well, I had to change them AGAIN. Here is what the new ones are:

1k= -15
2k= -11
24h= -10
3k= -13
34= -11
4k= -4 WTF

Now, after I did that I cruised around with those settings and watched my logger while I drove. It seems like the FT are get A LOT better. For instance, say I'm cruising in 3rd at about 2k RPM. The LTFT will be at 7 and my STFT will fluctuate between -6,-7,-8. Which is good? It is like that, up to 3k RPM. Which is also good?

Now, when I come to a stop (like a stop sign for instance), my LTFT will be at 7 and my STFT will be at 0. Is this ok?

Now, what is confusing to me is why my LTFT even while cruising, will not move from 7. The only time the LTFT moves from 7 is when I give it more throttle, and when I do that the LTFT goes to -7/-10 and the STFT goes to 6,8,10. This is mostly in the higher rpm's, say 2,400-3,400. This is all while cruising.

Also, when tuning that 4k NE point, and looking at the logger, the LTFT will go to -7 and the STFT will go to a positive number, say 1-5. It's like it reverses negative and positive when going up into higher RPM.

THANKS A LOT. I'm almost there... I hope.

 

[kmoore]

No, side-effects of doing this include possible risk of death. And impotence. Death and impotence.

... seriously though, I SHOULDN'T change anything while driving. Right?

 

[kmoore]

Another Update:

From doing some more research, I found out that those numbers are VERY rich so I decided to look more into the situation. I went back to the basics and did a boost leak test. And sure enough I had a HUGE one. So after I fixed the issue, I went back and dialed in the new settings according to the Fuel Trims (which I am still mixed up on). BUT! The numbers did get more negative. Which I think is good?

Now all I want to know is, is what should the STFT and LTFT be while I am cruising. And at idle is it alright that my STFT is at 0 and the LTFT is at 11? Thanks

 

[spyderturbo007]

You fixed all the little boost leaks too, right? What did you pressurize to and how long did it take to bleed down?

Idealy, the FT's should be zero, or add up to zero while cruising. Anything that adds up to +/- 5% will be fine. Outside of that range and you need to do a little more tuning. Keep in mind that your fuel trims will change with the weather, literally. Mine used to bounce around all the time.

One day the trims would be zero and look perfect. The next day the STFT would be -3 and the LTFT would be 7. No big deal, 7+ -3 = 4, so we are within the recommended guidelines. All kinds of things effect trims, PCV valve age, barometric pressure, load, blah, blah. Don't get too hung up on getting them perfect, get them close and then move on.

seriously though, I SHOULDN'T change anything while driving. Right?

Absolutely not, it's too dangerous. Buy, you can always have one of your friends drive you around while you mess with the trims.

 

[kmoore]

Nathan thanks for the response. I talked to CanadianTSI in a PM and he was telling me that I should tune to make just the STFT 0 and the LTFT will follow. At any RPM point. All I want to try and accomplish is to create a SAFE cruising tune. When the weather gets a little nicer I will try and get those STFT to get to 0.

 

[kmoore]

UPDATE: LOW SETTINGS ARE SET!

I finally got my fuel trims to cooperate and while cruising, they are at or around 0. At idle the LTFT is 10and the STFT is 0. I did what CanadianTSI told me to do and sure enough, the LTFT came down with the STFT. Keep in mind these FT's have been like this for 2 days now.... so I hope we're all good.

Here are the finaly settings:

1k= -18
2k= -14
2,400= -14
3k= -16
3,400= -15
4k-7k= -8

Now, I figured it's time for the high settings. I have been reading on those also, and I figured a good SAFE place to start would be -22 across the board? Or should I go to -24 across the board?

What is safe for a WOT 3rd gear pull? I will post logs (obviously) and see if I can get some REAL tuning help. THANKS!

 

[steve]

You start out by copying the low settings to the high and then leaning the car out from those.

 

[kmoore]

You start out by copying the low settings to the high and then leaning the car out from those.

Isn't that AWEFULLY rich though? I mean -14 will be a REAL rough place to start won't it?

 

[steve]

Isn't that AWEFULLY rich though? I mean -14 will be a REAL rough place to start won't it?

You would think so based on your numbers but you found those correction values based on what you had to do to correct the fuel needed to maintain a 14.7:1 AFR based on the O2 sensor feedback.

There isn't a difference other than the TPS value between high and low throttle settings inside the SAFC. We use the two tables to account for when the ECU should be in open loop where it picks a target AFR from a table rather than closed loop where it is always targets 14.7:1. The corrections needed to hit some random AFR should be the same as what it took to hit 14.7:1 unless we have the wrong corrections or there are leaks. So copying over the settings should cause the ECU to hit the AFR's in the open loop fuel map but "tuning" is usually making the ECU hit some different AFR than the factory programmed, and that is the tweeking done to the high throttle settings that make them different than the low. The factory AFR target might be 9.8:1 but we want 11.5:1 so we lean out the correction even more than is required so the actual AFR is also leaner.

So the first step is to find the setting that correct for the changes to the engine and make the ECU work like stock. That's what you have been doing and ends when you enter the values in both the high and low throttle correction tables. The second step is to tune the car from the stock settings for additional power. That only takes place in the high throttle correction table because that's where the ECU doesn't have feedback and you can change the AFR.

 

[kmoore]

Ok great. So should I put something like -16 across the board and do a pull? Since I have different values for each Ne- Point which setting do I put across the HI Settings?

 

[steve]

You copy exactly the same setting for each RPM that you have in the low to the high. That is your baseline.

 

[kmoore]

EVEN THE -8 FROM 4k- 7k?!?! That seems SO low.

 

[steve]

If you don't think those are right then they aren't right in the low settings either.

 

[kmoore]

Alright, well I'll give that a shot and do a pull. I'll report back with a log

 

[kmoore]

I did a quick log today. I know the parameters are a little screwed up. Here you go:


Time...Coolant Temp....RPM......Timing.....Air Temp.....Airflow
0.51......... 172.0....... 2816.0...... 34.0......... 55.0......... 4.44
0.99......... 172.0....... 2892.0...... 26.0......... 55.0......... 6.39
1.48......... 172.0....... 3032.0...... 20.0......... 54.0......... 8.57
2.25......... 172.0....... 3248.0...... 10.0......... 54.0......... 11.72
2.75......... 172.0....... 3644.0...... 12.0......... 54.0......... 12.37
3.24......... 174.0....... 3908.0...... 13.0......... 54.0......... 13.48
3.74......... 174.0....... 4184.0...... 14.0......... 55.0......... 15.08
4.23......... 174.0....... 4468.0...... 15.0......... 55.0......... 16.44
4.73......... 174.0....... 4732.0...... 15.0......... 55.0......... 18.04
5.22......... 174.0....... 5016.0...... 15.0......... 55.0......... 19.59
5.72......... 174.0....... 5272.0...... 16.0......... 55.0......... 20.99
6.21......... 174.0....... 5532.0...... 17.0......... 57.0......... 21.69
6.71......... 174.0....... 5772.0...... 19.0......... 57.0......... 22.22
7.2........... 174.0....... 6016.0...... 21.0......... 57.0......... 22.88
7.7........... 174.0....... 6264.0...... 21.0......... 59.0......... 23.21
8.46......... 176.0....... 6508.0...... 22.0......... 59.0......... 22.92
8.96......... 176.0....... 6796.0...... 23.0......... 61.0......... 22.94


To me this log doesn't look too bad. But then again this was only at 10psi. I'll let you guys be the judge.
I will try and do another log (if you guys think this one is alright) with some more boost. Felt pretty solid at only 10psi though .

 

[2gGSX]

Looks fine, no timing's being pulled, at least.

 

[kmoore]

I'll try another log (with the right parameters) with 15psi and see how it goes....

Edit: I forgot to tell everyone, that this pull was at -22 across the HI settings.