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Turbo System Tech: 4G63 turbos, Intercooling, Boost Control, Wastegates, etc.

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Old 02-16-2013, 10:42 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #1 (permalink)
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VGT - Blaylock Switchblade


This thread is about the Blaylock Switchblade turbocharger and its control actuation. The Switchblade is a variable aspect ratio turbo that uses a single aerofoil type vane to direct the flow of exhaust gas around the exducer wheel. I think the Switchblade is an interesting design because of its potential for use in gasoline engines without succumbing to problems associated with EGT and premature mechanical failure. The vane is made from inconel and there is only a single moving part in the vane assembly.

This turbo is substantially lighter in weight than the Holset HE turbos (due to both a lighter CHRA and exhaust housing) and does not require water cooling. To date, the compressor is based around a Borg Warner 63mm or 66mm wheel. It is currently an oil bearing turbo however plans are on the horizon for exploring ball bearing versions.

Actuation of this turbo is done by means of the VGT turbo controller documented on this thread HE351VE Controller Project

Here is the unit on a Cummins 5.9L at Blaylock Turbo. This system will also be tested on a 2G.


The benefits of the vane and control are clear. The wheel accelerates much faster when the VG is active. The plot below shows two runs, one with and one without vane control. Both runs are from 0mph idle condition.



Last edited by casuprock; 02-18-2013 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:04 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #2 (permalink)
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I've wondered for several years how hard something like this would be to implement in one of our turbos. Kindasorta like the VGT on the RDX turbos, except those have two volutes and a valve that closes one off.

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Old 02-18-2013, 04:49 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #3 (permalink)
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Also subscribed :-) this is an amazing advancement. I wonder how long before we start seeing this on main stream production vehicals for performance.

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Old 02-19-2013, 09:37 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #4 (permalink)
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Are you going to put this turbo on your car? do you have the wheel specs on this turbo?

Before I decided to build a quick spool valve I looked in to this set up. Seems like it would work a little better then just closing off one side it the housing with a spool valve but the process of building one myself seemed a bit more complicated

Keep us posted, I'm interested to see how it will work on our engines.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:28 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boostdriven View Post
Are you going to put this turbo on your car? do you have the wheel specs on this turbo?

Before I decided to build a quick spool valve I looked in to this set up. Seems like it would work a little better then just closing off one side it the housing with a spool valve but the process of building one myself seemed a bit more complicated

Keep us posted, I'm interested to see how it will work on our engines.
We'll see what we can do with this turbo on a DSM fairly soon. I have high expectations for this turbo. Much better than the valve types. Blaylock has a good idea here.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:28 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #6 (permalink)
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A 63mm compressor wheel accelerates (spools) like it's a 16g... Video from Blaylock Turbos.

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Originally Posted by Boostdriven View Post
do you have the wheel specs on this turbo?
The compressor wheel in the videos is a Borg Warner 63mm in Blaylock's compressor housing. They also do a 66mm wheel at the moment.

Last edited by casuprock; 02-26-2013 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Auto-merged with previous post to prevent "bumping" within a 24 hour period Tips on avoiding the auto-merge feature - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_bumping
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:09 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #7 (permalink)
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Very interested in this, what would the housing be? T3, T4, T4 TS!!!?

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Old 02-27-2013, 08:28 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #8 (permalink)
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This is pure genius. I was wondering how long it would take this concept to reach a production level.

Please post more results asap.

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Old 02-27-2013, 02:57 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotalon1g View Post
Very interested in this, what would the housing be? T3, T4, T4 TS!!!?
The Switchblade has a T4 flange.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RWD4G63 View Post
This is pure genius. I was wondering how long it would take this concept to reach a production level.

Please post more results asap.
We're going as fast as we can!

Last edited by casuprock; 02-27-2013 at 02:58 PM. Reason: Auto-merged with previous post to prevent "bumping" within a 24 hour period Tips on avoiding the auto-merge feature - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_bumping
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:15 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #10 (permalink)
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Subscribed as well. It should be noted though, that some VGT turbo's that are on today's diesels can be ran on gas engines without killing them. The whole EGT argument about the housings flaking and the vanes melting is based on people on the internet speculating and regurgitating information. It has been a reliable setup for a good friend of mine's legacy for some time. I can speak this about the garrett VGT on the powerstrokes confidently, but cannot vouch for the others.

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Old 03-05-2013, 05:11 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #11 (permalink)
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Subscribed as well. It should be noted though, that some VGT turbo's that are on today's diesels can be ran on gas engines without killing them. The whole EGT argument about the housings flaking and the vanes melting is based on people on the internet speculating and regurgitating information. It has been a reliable setup for a good friend of mine's legacy for some time. I can speak this about the garrett VGT on the powerstrokes confidently, but cannot vouch for the others.
While I see what you're saying, I haven't seen any of these "reliable" setups push the turbocharger near or to it's limit. Okay so you can set them on 15 or 20psi, woopdeedoo. I doubt they hold up nearly as well at 35-45psi on gas engines, where EGT's really build up in the turbine housing from backpressure.

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Old 03-05-2013, 08:02 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWD4G63 View Post
While I see what you're saying, I haven't seen any of these "reliable" setups push the turbocharger near or to it's limit. Okay so you can set them on 15 or 20psi, woopdeedoo. I doubt they hold up nearly as well at 35-45psi on gas engines, where EGT's really build up in the turbine housing from backpressure.
The switchblade has a 19cm exhaust housing, the EGTs won't get that high because the back pressure can be controlled by the vane to stay equal to or less than the charge pressure. That's one of the reasons it is an intriguing design. Its simplicity is also to its benefit in surviving high temperatures.

We'll monitor the EGTs and back pressure on the DSM we're going to test and post the logs.
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:14 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #13 (permalink)
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The switchblade has a 19cm exhaust housing, the EGTs won't get that high because the back pressure can be controlled by the vane to stay equal to or less than the charge pressure. That's one of the reasons it is an intriguing design. Its simplicity is also to its benefit in surviving high temperatures.

We'll monitor the EGTs and back pressure on the DSM we're going to test and post the logs.
Yeah I don't have much concern for the switchblade, it seems like a simple, durable setup. I was responding to the guy I quoted who was saying that the Garrett and Holset VGT turbos were reliable on gas engines.

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Old 04-10-2013, 09:06 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #14 (permalink)
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This thing is a monster. Outran 950cc injectors with ease. Building boost by 4k. We're addressing some minor sensor issues and Thaxton Design is planning on getting 2000cc injectors put in this test vehicle before we continue with tuning or hit the dyno.

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Old 04-11-2013, 08:11 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #15 (permalink)
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This thing is a monster. Outran 950cc injectors with ease. Building boost by 4k. We're addressing some minor sensor issues and Thaxton Design is planning on getting 2000cc injectors put in this test vehicle before we continue with tuning or hit the dyno.

Variable vane turbocharger on 2G DSM - YouTube
I'm confused. I thought this was going to spool like a 16g. Doesn't 4k RPM seem awfully slow? I hope this number is able to be substantially decreased or this turbo won't be much of an improvement over current options. . Also, I would've been very surprised if 950cc injectors were able to flow enough, not the other way around.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:37 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #16 (permalink)
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4k on a turbo that can flow 60lbs/min isn't really anything to scoff at, with adjust the cams and some tuning you could probably drop it a little lower and that would put it in 16g territory.


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Old 04-11-2013, 09:05 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #17 (permalink)
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Yeah but I've seen plenty of 35r's with full spool at 3500 to 4k. I was really expecting a lot more out of this thing.

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Old 04-11-2013, 09:24 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #18 (permalink)
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Are you able to post a log?
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:43 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #19 (permalink)
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The vane was opening prematurely for the maiden voyage due to a poor choice of sensor location in the compressor housing

I think this is great since the next steps are to tune the engine better, probably get bigger injectors, and relocating the sensor in the housing. It's a beast right now, and will only get better!

Stay tuned for updates. I don't think there will be any logs posted until the dyno results at which point all of the logs from the dyno runs will be released. Butt dyno doesn't count. Thaxton Design is managing the build, Kevin and myself are strong proponents of scientific testing.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:16 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiki2777 View Post
Just make it happen already!
Soon you'll wake up to find all of the results have been posted silently in the middle of the night, just like a ninja visit.

Here is an interesting comparison of exhaust housing sizes between the Switchblade and other turbos.

Aurora 5000 on the right, Switchblade on left:


HX40 on left, Switchblade on right:

Last edited by casuprock; 04-11-2013 at 07:58 PM. Reason: Auto-merged with previous post to prevent "bumping" within a 24 hour period Tips on avoiding the auto-merge feature - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_bumping
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