Upgrade s16G to EVO3 16G

HadesOmega · 06-27-2012, 01:29 AM

So I have my small 16g turbo out of the car (not by choice) and I really want an EVO3 turbo so I can get some more power. There doesn't seem to be any around for a decent price so I was wondering if I can convert my small 16g into a EVO3 16g?

I'm guessing all I need is to change the compressor wheel to an EVO3 wheel and maybe get an EVO3 compressor housing? Everything else, particularly the hot side is the same. I could just swap them out and bam instant EVO3 16G boost?

donniekak · 06-27-2012, 02:43 AM

If the 211 dyno was on the small 16g, there is a lot more left in that turbo.

honda_burner · 06-27-2012, 05:28 AM

Yeah there is more left in that turbo. The s16 maxes out at around 23 psi. And I believe the shafts are different. One of the turbo guys on here can correct me but im pretty sure machining is required.

Marceldsm · 06-27-2012, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donniekak

If the 211 dyno was on the small 16g, there is a lot more left in that turbo.

someting is off

becouse that s16g can push 300 hp

Bo0sTdTsI · 06-27-2012, 05:42 AM

Yea if u pulled 211 hp on that 16g theres plenty left in it, not much need in upgrading just yet.

92 GSR-4 · 06-27-2012, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honda_burner

. And I believe the shafts are different. One of the turbo guys on here can correct me but im pretty sure machining is required.

Shaft size/diameters and exhaust wheel are the same as any other TDO5H based turbo. The Small 16G has a smaller exducer compared to the B16G/EvoIII1G/20G so machining of the center section as well as the compressor cover will be needed to go to a larger wheel.

If he had a B16G or EVOIII 16G he could go to a larger 20G wheel without any machining to the center section but would have to either machine his compressor cover for the bigger wheel or just buy one that will work.

XLR8 · 06-27-2012, 06:45 AM

Also, there is not much gain to be made going from s16g to evo316g. Especially with the cost of the evo316g now, you might as well go with something larger and not limit yourself for future plans. If at some point you did max out the evo3 you would have to upgrade again and that is just silly.

91stocker · 06-27-2012, 07:06 AM

I agree with everyone else and say hold off on the upgrade for now. 211whp is rather poor for a 14b even. Not too long ago another member posted up a basically stock 14b car at 15psi that put down near 230. Hell even the stock t25 is 230whp capable.

Maybe a better upgrade would be from your afc to link v3.

cartz-snopro · 06-27-2012, 09:13 AM

keep goin with what you have, i was pushing 25psi with my s16g and was easily at 300 hp. the car spooled quick and was fast. there is alot of potential still with what you have

JusMX141 · 06-27-2012, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HadesOmega

I'm guessing all I need is to change the compressor wheel to an EVO3 wheel and maybe get an EVO3 compressor housing? Everything else, particularly the hot side is the same. I could just swap them out and bam instant EVO3 16G boost?

No- you also need to get the center housing machined. There are threads with talk of this literally all over this site.

You'd stand to gain a max of 3 or 4 lb/min of peak airflow....about the difference in going from a 14B to a Small 16G, or Big 16G to 20G. You'd also stand to gain around 300-400rpms of lag. Whether the tradeoff is worth it or not is up to you.

GoCanes777 · 06-27-2012, 09:37 AM

Switch to link, I'm running a s16g at 20 pounds with link v3 lite awesome power band. Sadly i maxxed out my injectors i would go with 700cc maybe 800cc on pump to really let the turbo go.

yukiz · 06-27-2012, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donniekak

If the 211 dyno was on the small 16g, there is a lot more left in that turbo.

that number is his 420a turbo, not the gst he had, i think he hasnt update his profile yet...

HadesOmega · 06-27-2012, 02:01 PM

yeah thats my 420a with a t3/t04e at like 10 psi of boost.

I've decided to just get a whole evo3 turbo, its more economical that way. If I can find a cheap blown evo3 with a good wheel it'd be worthwhile to do the conversion I guess. So the center section is different? I've read that the 14b is different but I thought all the 16gs are the same?

I don't like this BEP housing also, it seems unnecessarily big, breaks bolts, hard to get the turbine housing off, and is harder to install and uninstall. =( I was going to drill out the bolt holes on the turbine housing and go with nuts and bolts so I don't have to worry about breaking em and guess what it so damn big there's no room for the nuts.

Well I'm running about 18-20 psi on the s16G right now and it still feels slow to me at least compared to my t3/to4 and I'm running twice the boost. Haven't dyno'd it yet though, not till I replace my wobly cam gear. At 20 its not bad though. I've got 1000cc injectors with just a base tune.

Will the evo3 give me a little extra punch over the s16g? I don't really want to go over 20 psi also since this is kind of my daily driver. I was planning on going e85 eventually since I have all the supporting mods. It does spool quick I guess but doesn't hit hard.

Can the T25 really make 230whp?

91stocker · 06-27-2012, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HadesOmega

Will the evo3 give me a little extra punch over the s16g? I don't really want to go over 20 psi also since this is kind of my daily driver. I was planning on going e85 eventually since I have all the supporting mods. It does spool quick I guess but doesn't hit hard.

The e3 can give you 30-40whp more potential. Pretty substantial in my opinion. With no plans on running over 20psi id leave the s16g on there. I dont see any worthy gains under 20psi.

Sounds like you just need a good tune.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HadesOmega

Can the T25 really make 230whp?

Sure can, thats why i recommend link to everyone that wants their very first mod to be a turbo upgrade.

My friend ran 14.1 in his stock gst with only mbc,cai, 3" turbo back. With link it would have been a solid mid 13's car and still basically stock.

JusMX141 · 06-27-2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HadesOmega

So the center section is different?

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HadesOmega

I've read that the 14b is different but I thought all the 16gs are the same?

You thought wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HadesOmega

I don't like this BEP housing also, it seems unnecessarily big, breaks bolts, hard to get the turbine housing off, and is harder to install and uninstall. =( I was going to drill out the bolt holes on the turbine housing and go with nuts and bolts so I don't have to worry about breaking em and guess what it so damn big there's no room for the nuts.

Seems to be a problem that plagues the stainless BEP housings, and is an even bigger problem when the improper anti-seize is used (stainless housing = nickel anti-sieze).

Quote:

Originally Posted by HadesOmega

Will the evo3 give me a little extra punch over the s16g? I don't really want to go over 20 psi also since this is kind of my daily driver.

At 20psi, you're not going to notice much difference. The Small 16G is basically at the end of it's rope and the Evo III has a tiny bit left in it at that boost level.

Consider the Small 16G has a smaller compressor wheel, so it will be spinning at a faster RPM than the Evo III at the same boost level. This allows it to spool quicker and generate more airflow than it would if it had a 68mm exducer like the Evo III.

This also means the air will be further-compressed and hotter, so don't take this as me saying the Small 16G and Evo III are on the same level...they're not. What I am saying is for you to do all of this work and spend additional money to run the same boost level and gain about 400rpms of lag, you're not going to notice much of a power gain. In fact, the car may feel slower and less-responsive on the street because of the lag.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HadesOmega

Can the T25 really make 230whp?

For a little while, until the turbine wheel flies out the exhaust when the shaft snaps due to overboosting.

my dreamt dsm · 06-27-2012, 02:48 PM

Jumbo Tim of Timbo Tim forgot his user name

His 2g gsx pull low 13 second passes with the t25. So that will probably be around or more then that hp mark.

laser90 · 07-03-2012, 03:54 PM

FWIW My profile numbers were on a s16g(20-22psi), when that turbo finally died I switched to a B16g internally gated and another ebay manifold. In my particular case the car felt much better at the same boost level. When I went to dyno I upped the boost to 26spi spike and held about 22-24psi and the car made 328whp 333wtq. No other modification beside cleaning up the A/F and it was the same tuner and same amount of pulls.