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Turbo System Tech: 4G63 turbos, Intercooling, Boost Control, Wastegates, etc.

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Old 06-15-2010, 01:57 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #1 (permalink)
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Ball Bearing Garrett Turbo Rebuild / Exchange


I wanted to post some info I can't find on this forum. I have been hearing for years that Garrett turbos aren't rebuildable etc. Well they aren't rebuildable. But there is hope.

I bought this turbo in 08 and found out from FP that it was about to go through catastrophic failure. Although it had no shaft play the turbine and compressor wheel were hitting the housing etc. My friends told me I was ####ed.






So I made a few calls and found out a little know fact. Garret has an BB exchange program. No matter what is wrong with the turbo as long as the ball bearings are in decent condition they will replace the entire CHRA assembly.


I got a brand new 35R balanced BB chra, turbine wheel, and comp wheel. They also thoroughly cleaned the housings.







The cost for everything was $480 shipped!



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Old 06-15-2010, 02:08 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #2 (permalink)
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$480 for essentially a turbo rebuild? Wow...

IMO BB turbos are great if you are wanting a fast spooling track car or so but other than that I would go with journal bearings as it's only say up to $130 for a rebuild kit.


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Old 06-15-2010, 02:09 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #3 (permalink)
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That is beyond awesome, I might have to pick one up one of these days.

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Old 06-15-2010, 02:14 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #4 (permalink)
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The entire assembly is new and it's balanced. Only thing reused is the housings. It's a new BB turbo. Not a rebuilt turbo. I forgot to mention. IT COMES WITH A WARRANTY.


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Old 06-15-2010, 02:17 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #5 (permalink)
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why are they not rebuildable? just finding the proper bearings?
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Old 06-15-2010, 02:24 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoolin ddub View Post
The entire assembly is new and it's balanced. Only thing reused is the housings. It's a new BB turbo. Not a rebuilt turbo. I forgot to mention. IT COMES WITH A WARRANTY.
Well that's not bad then if you are basically getting a new turbo out of it.

Wondering if there is a certain time frame that this is allowed. How long as this been available as well?


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Old 06-15-2010, 02:25 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ramsack View Post
why are they not rebuildable? just finding the proper bearings?
I'll break it down.

Now lets say your wheel is broken or chipped. Garrett can sell you a new wheel. The thing is they won't. They do not sell parts individually(Monopoly). So you are forced to spend from $480 up to $1300 for the CHRA. If you get a Turbo from FP etc you're ####ed because Garrett will not touch or exchange a turbo with non-Garrett parts on it (not even one with an after market housing).

So to answer your question they are rebuildable. They just won't rebuild them.


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Old 06-15-2010, 02:29 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #8 (permalink)
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i see now, that's retarded. the only thing that is good for to everyone else is the guaranteed recycling of the materials. i'm no expert but it looks like that turbine is ceramic, maybe that's a reason too?
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Old 06-15-2010, 02:33 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #9 (permalink)
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This is old news.

The price is new though. But who cares when you can get other whole turbos for the same price as the new chra ?

It's still no myth that garrett BB turbos cannot be rebuilt. It still costs 1/3 the amount to have a JB turbo rebuilt vs. getting a new garrett CHRA. Is this the same tactic that Comp uses to claim their turbos are rebuildable? (I am not pecking a fight here)


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Old 06-15-2010, 02:33 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #10 (permalink)
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i see now, that's retarded. the only thing that is good for to everyone else is the guaranteed recycling of the materials. i'm no expert but it looks like that turbine is ceramic, maybe that's a reason too?
Nope. That turbine wheel is burnt to ####ing toast from the motor over heating . They didn't care about the turbine. As long as the ball bearings are good they give you a complete new unit and don't even bother to rebuild it.

dsm-onster it's old news to you and I. But it's amazing how many other people do not know about it. Especially with so many knowledgeable turbo people around. It may be a repost but I can't find this info on this forum. BB are a little more expensive because not just anyone has access to the parts and can rebuild a BB CHRA. They are crazy. I don't know if people know but the ball bearings are married to the turbo. You can not just swap BB and from one turbo to another. If one BB is bad the entire CHRA has to be replaced and them being balanced is a must. $480 shipped is not bad for all new parts and and a no questions asked warranty. Garrett just exchanges the turbo. Comp rebuilds the turbo. That's a totally different thread. This isn't a comparison thread or debate. I posted this info for people that have not been informed about the fact and run a Garrett BB turbo or may be intersted in purchasing one. Knowledge is powa!


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Old 06-15-2010, 07:37 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #11 (permalink)
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$480 is not a bad price..

Forced performance just replaced my CHRA (3082) in my FP3065..They charge about $900 for a new CHRA. So $480 isnt bad. I ended up buying the FP3065 when it was at FP for a rebuild from a guy that didnt want to pay that much to have the same turbo he just had and pretty much maxed out, rebuilt. I snatched it up and had them rebuild it for myself and saved about $600 on a new FP3065. I guess you gotta throw in a few bucks for the labor and all, cause I couldnt even tell it was used when I got it, but I still think that it is quite high. You don't even want to know how much they wanted to put a HTA CHRA in there!!!!!TRY $1400. So long story short..If you are doing the labor yourself and can trust that the CHRA is genuine and a quality product, then you deff. made out.

But........In no way am I saying don't get a FP turbo. Though pricey, their service is awesome. They make great products. You just gotta pay to play with FP.
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Old 06-16-2010, 05:08 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by little-razcal View Post
$480 is not a bad price..

Forced performance just replaced my CHRA (3082) in my FP3065..They charge about $900 for a new CHRA. So $480 isnt bad. I ended up buying the FP3065 when it was at FP for a rebuild from a guy that didnt want to pay that much to have the same turbo he just had and pretty much maxed out, rebuilt. I snatched it up and had them rebuild it for myself and saved about $600 on a new FP3065. I guess you gotta throw in a few bucks for the labor and all, cause I couldnt even tell it was used when I got it, but I still think that it is quite high. You don't even want to know how much they wanted to put a HTA CHRA in there!!!!!TRY $1400. So long story short..If you are doing the labor yourself and can trust that the CHRA is genuine and a quality product, then you deff. made out.

But........In no way am I saying don't get a FP turbo. Though pricey, their service is awesome. They make great products. You just gotta pay to play with FP.
The reason you couldn't tell it was used once you got it in your hands is because it wasn't used. Most likely FP just exchanged the old unit for a new one. So actually they did what you could have done. They just charge you a $420 storage fee.

But the trick is you have to take off the non-Garrett FP housing and send it in . Everything else on the 3065 is an original (3082) Garrett part. As long as the tubo qualifies the exchange will be honored. Get it back, bolt on that FP turbine housing and BAM. You now have a new turbo . An HTA turbo is a different situation.


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Old 06-16-2010, 07:08 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by spoolin ddub View Post
So I made a few calls and found out a little know fact. Garret has an BB exchange program. No matter what is wrong with the turbo as long as the ball bearings are in decent condition they will replace the entire CHRA assembly.
It's no secret- this information has been on their website since 2007.

TurboByGarrett.com - BB Service


....and it's not new, it's remanufactured; hence the savings over the cost of a replacement new CHRA. I doubt they'd ever reuse a bearing cartridge, but even in the link I posted above the requirement is that at least the center housing be reusable. I'd imagine if they get a good core in that has no turbine wheel damage, there's no reason they'd throw away the turbine.

I'll still take a journal bearing turbo over a ball bearing unit, especially on a daily driver. If something scatters in my engine and fills the turbo with metal, I'll know that for a $75 parts kit my journal bearing turbo will be as good as new instead of $500 to repair or replace the ball bearing unit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ramsack View Post
why are they not rebuildable? just finding the proper bearings?
Garrett uses a sealed ball bearing cartridge that is pressed on to the turbine shaft. There is no thrust system in a ball bearing turbo because the shaft can never move in or out; this is the main reason they are so durable for high boost....no worry about thrust wear.

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i'm no expert but it looks like that turbine is ceramic, maybe that's a reason too?
Inconel.

You can't judge the metal used in the turbine by the carbon color on the wheel. Some of the turbos I get in for rebuilds are used on cars that run straight race fuel....the turbine wheels are light gray or white.


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Old 06-16-2010, 07:26 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jusmx141 View Post
You can't judge the metal used in the turbine by the carbon color on the wheel. Some of the turbos I get in for rebuilds are used on cars that run straight race fuel....the turbine wheels are light gray or white.
i just thought that burned pic didn't even look like metal, it looks to me like a ceramic pot with glaze. are ceramic turbines still metal?
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Old 06-16-2010, 07:31 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #15 (permalink)
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Been rebuilding turbos seven years and I've seen to see a turbo with a ceramic turbine wheel.


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Old 06-16-2010, 07:33 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #16 (permalink)
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ct20b?
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Old 06-16-2010, 07:34 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #17 (permalink)
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Once again just because you have known just as I most don't. Why are all you so defensive and always attacking? Whatever reason you choose to run a turbo it's your business. It doesn't matter if it's a daily driver or race car. That has no purpose in my thread. This is not a comparison thread. This is info for the community about what options you have if you have a bad BB Garrett turbo that may help them save some money.


Quote:
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i just thought that burned pic didn't even look like metal, it looks to me like a ceramic pot with glaze. are ceramic turbines still metal?
The turbine wheel was was so hot it started to melt.


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Old 06-16-2010, 07:36 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #18 (permalink)
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i think it's a great deal for something from the manufacturer with a warranty.
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:00 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #19 (permalink)
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Yes it is a good deal and like jusmx141 posted has been an available option for a while. It just puzzles me why no one put this information out in the community so they to knew it was an option.


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Old 06-16-2010, 08:51 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #20 (permalink)
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Why are all you so defensive and always attacking? Whatever reason you choose to run a turbo it's your business.
I'm not defending shit; you're apparently searching through my posts in an attempt to find reasons to ridicule.

I'm just putting the information out there that the days of the $400-$450 journal bearing turbo rebuild are gone; if your journal bearing turbo has no wheel damage you can repair it yourself for $75-$100 if you have the proper disassembly or cleaning tools, or there are plently of shops / individuals who can perform the service for under $200 total cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spoolin ddub View Post
It just puzzles me why no one put this information out in the community so they to knew it was an option.
It's been brought up in the past, I just don't think there are any searchable terms in those thread titles. Maybe you could change the thread title to "Ball Bearing Garrett Rebuild / Exchange" or something along those lines to make the information easier to search as there is no real "myth" behind "Garrett BB" turbos.


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