Next mod on way to HX-35?

[ElectronVTEC]

I'm trying to get the most out of my S16G while at the same time preparing to move up to an HX35 in the future. I'd like to think my next mod should be along the lines of a new O2 housing with a 38mm gate off the O2 but my question is, will a setup like that which works for a 16G also work for an HX35 and bolt up to my buschur downpipe? I've read through the Holset Pt 6 thread almost in its entirety but am a little confused as to which way I should go. I would also consider doing a HAFE with the wg off the manifold but then what type of O2 housing should i go with, O2 eliminator? I just want to make sure that if I buy something now, it will work fine with a Holset in the future. I am planning on the .55 BEP housing if that helps any. My mods are in my profile, thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[My1GLaser]

I am currently doing a similar thing. Maxxing out my 18g but making sure that I can use my parts when I get a Holset.

FWIW, I went with a Tial 38 off the O2 housing. I will probably go with a BEP housing, so it will bolt to the Mitsu flanges of my tubular O2 housing and my new FP ex mani.

I think that a WG off the O2 housing is a better option than a flange only on the #1 runner of the exhaust mani because it bypasses the extra exhaust from all cylinders equally. In then end it probably doesn't matter much, but I figure it balances the exhaust flow better this way.

 

[ElectronVTEC]

Yea, I agree with you and if I had the money, I'd just buy an ERL with the collector WG but I don't have $500 to drop on a manifold when I can probably get a FP or Hafe mani, wg, and O2 housing for just a bit more than the ERL alone. Any brands that I should be on the lookout for for the O2 housing? I have heard Punishment is good and affordable which is a win in my book Planning on buying a used Tial since they go for around $150 on trader. Thanks for the input!

 

[ElectronVTEC]

Something just dawned on me. If I went with say an ERL T3 manifold and picked up a WG on Trader, all I need then is a T3 O2 housing and an HX35 would bolt right up with no need for a BEP hotside.

ERL: $550
HX35: $300?
WG: $150
Punishment T3 O2 housing: 230
Total: $1230

Otherwise:
FP Manifold: $200
HX35: $300
BEP Housing: $250
WG: $150
Punishment O2 Housing: $309
Total: $1209

So the BEP housing is cheaper, but I think option #1 is well worth the $20 difference. Better performance, can accept *any* T3 turbo in the future, and will actually save some space on the O2 housing side. I guess the moral of the story is that an O2 housing might not be the best next move for me. Cams and a SMIM though, those would help both I would think.

So far I'm tuned for 22 psi on pump 93 with about 16* of timing, very little knock at 11.2:1 AFR's, if that makes any difference.

 

[Gstclipse69]

I am currently in the same boat. I am maxing out my 18g before upgrading to a hx35.
Could you post a link of the erl manifold? Is it a divided manifold? Does anyone know of an affordable divided t3 manifold?
Another question to throw out there, does anyone make a t3 o2 housing with a provision for a wastegate?
I do not want to get a bep housing period. I dont want to wait or pay for a "bolt on" housing. I am currently either looking for a t3 manifold but Im not sure what exhaust housing the hx35 I get will have on it. I know the divided manifold will help spool but well see what I get. Another thought I was having was if I got an open t3 exhaust housing, why not just get an fp manifold and have a dsm/t3 adapter to the housing, hence the need for a wastegate on the t3 o2 housing.
I've been pondering this for awhile, but your post inspired me to post as well.

 

[dsmusmc]

Does anyone know of an affordable divided t3 manifold?

I had to laugh at that. I damn near broke my bank account when I got mine from JMFab. As far as I know thats the only place I know that makes manifolds in divided T3. Im picking up a hx35 this weekend with the stock divided T3 housing until I get my BW362. They spool quick already I cant wait to see how it does like this.

 

[ElectronVTEC]

I am currently in the same boat. I am maxing out my 18g before upgrading to a hx35.
Could you post a link of the erl manifold? Is it a divided manifold? Does anyone know of an affordable divided t3 manifold?
Another question to throw out there, does anyone make a t3 o2 housing with a provision for a wastegate?
I do not want to get a bep housing period. I dont want to wait or pay for a "bolt on" housing. I am currently either looking for a t3 manifold but Im not sure what exhaust housing the hx35 I get will have on it. I know the divided manifold will help spool but well see what I get. Another thought I was having was if I got an open t3 exhaust housing, why not just get an fp manifold and have a dsm/t3 adapter to the housing, hence the need for a wastegate on the t3 o2 housing.
I've been pondering this for awhile, but your post inspired me to post as well.

I know it's not the ideal setup but the HX-35 I'm looking at has an internal gate on it so I think I may just pick up a cheap ebay T3 undivided manifold, use the int. gate, and save up for an ERL + Tial to finish off the setup. That way I don't need an O2 gate either way.

As for where to get an ERL (ERL is undivided, just FYI), this thread has info on it:
DSM Turbo Manifold - ERL Performance - TEAM XXX Racing Message Board

and you can order one from here:

Team XXX Racing Online Store

The above plan is only if I get antsy or if I blow up my s16g, just FYI

 

[dsm-onster]

You will creap and not hold boost under 30+ psi with the internal gate. If you're prepaird for such boost with a high flowing setup then have fun. . .

 

[ElectronVTEC]

Thanks again Matt. My stock rods and pistons thank you. I'll just get the turbo and save up until I can put the right stuff on to support it.

 

[JusMX141]

Something just dawned on me. If I went with say an ERL T3 manifold and picked up a WG on Trader, all I need then is a T3 O2 housing and an HX35 would bolt right up with no need for a BEP hotside.

ERL: $550
HX35: $300?
WG: $150
Punishment T3 O2 housing: 230
Total: $1230

You'll still be running an undivided manifold bolted to a divided-housing turbo, and that's not a good idea. You should look at the HY35 if these are your plans.

The Punishment T3 o2 housing is not even close to fitting a Holset, so plan on doing something custom.

I think I may just pick up a cheap ebay T3 undivided manifold, use the int. gate, and save up for an ERL + Tial to finish off the setup.

You're throwing your money away. The eBay manifold barely clears the block with a .63 A/R Garrett turbine housing....it's not even CLOSE with a 12cm Holset housing, unless you do some serious modification.

Another issue is the factory wastegate hole in the 12cm Holset turbine housing is about the size of a dime and only pulls boost from one runner. You'll have little (if any) boost control on a gasoline application.

There's no cheap or easy way to do this. If you're saving big money on the turbo, you're going to have to drop it somewhere else (manifolds, mounting accessories).

 

[dsm-onster]

Justin the 12cm^ turbine housing is very small for a twinscroll housing. He can run it with an open header with something like a 7blade hx35 and have spool speed like a bolton 8blade hx40 and probably about the same turbine flow. And the 7blade hx35 compressor is a 60lb/min compressor. Flows as much asn an 8blade hx40 compressor. . . But in every other case, I agree with you that running a divided housing with a non-divided manifold is NOT a good idea. . . It's jsut that TimG's results have proven that in the case of the hx35 hotside, you can be very successful with an open t3 header.

The ERL manifold allows the housing to clear the block. But yep. NO WAY with an ebay header. You'll need spacers and more gaskets and running the risk of preturbo leaks in twice as many places. Better off waiting for the erl.

Or better off hacking off the ebay header flange and rewelding it at a different angle as an option. . . But if you're going for the ERL manifold eventually, might as well wait and get it and don't even bother with the ebay manifold and the work you have to do. Not that using an ebay manifold is a bad rout to take. But it's just that since you have to do a bit of work to get it to work properly, that should be your final product. . . unless you just like taking the long way After all, $1230 total for a COMPLETE turbo solution that spools to good boost by 4K and flows 60lb/min is a GREAT price. This includes a GREAT flow upgrade in the exhaust manifold and the ability to have a GREAT flow upgrade in a better style o2 housing. For $230 that you'd pay for the PR o2 housing. Get a custom housing made for cheaper (no WG flanging) and it will flow much better than something like a bolton o2 housing anyway, and the ERL manfold can be had with a WG flange and just atmosphere dump the WG.

You'll need to radius the 12cm^2 housing divider. OR I think PTE sells a turbine to manifold gasket that has a radiused divider piece in it that makes your divided housing have a smoother transition from the collector to the housing. . .

 

[ElectronVTEC]

You guys are good, let me just say that. I've decided that it is best to wait for a little bit until I can just buy all the stuff I need at one time so I don't go off and try to put together a half-assed setup. That's how I walked away from DSM's seven years ago and I don't plan on making that mistake twice. I know of a local shop that can very easily fab up an O2 housing or O2-elim DP and the ERL is just the smart choice for a T3 flanged EM currently. Thanks again for all of your advice, even though I might not jump on the turbo today, I will be upgrading in the short-term armed with all of the good advice and experience you guys have.

Todd.

 

[dsm-onster]

Justin and I have just been there and done that. He really knows what he's doing. He's the resident turbo rebuilder and can match any turbo to your setup.

Just don't buy an 8 blade hx35 expecting 600whp. The 7blade would be your option if youre going to run a t3 manifold. But! Regardless, DEFINATELY don't worry about which compressor wheel you have if youre looking for pumpgas numbers and a cool 450+whp turbo. But still if your goal is under 500whp, you're far better off with the bolton housing and any hx35 turbo. It's just too easy. And the spool speed will be very nice. A bolton turbine housing and bolton o2 housing with an external gate will all cost you less than a pure holset setup. Unless you want to go ebay t3 manifold with external gate flanging and custom o2 housing.

 

[ElectronVTEC]

My goals are for around 400-450 whp, the 60lb/min 7 blade seemed like a good choice as it could pump out that number without much sweat in the process. 8 blade HX-35's are all over ebay in pretty good shape for as low as $150 so I agree with you, that plus a BEP plus an O2 EWG is easy and cheap and frankly, that's pretty attractive

Todd.

 

[dsm-onster]

For your goal, don't even bother about the compressor. Just decide how you want the turbine to function. I strongly suggest, from my personal experience and from that of many others, jsut get abolton housing and an external gate o2 housing and any hx35 will do for you what you want.

 

[My1GLaser]

Matt, I want to ask what would be best in my situation.

I want a solid 500hp and not much more b/c I really don't want to start breaking my drivetrain which is completely stock. (except the clutch & FW)

I have a new FP race manifold, Tial 38mm off a home made 2.5" tubular o2 housing. 3" turboback exhaust.

I am really stuck trying to decide between an HX-40 that I can grow into or one of the HX-35 variations. If the 8 blade 35 will do then I will go for it. I just don't want to be disappointed and end up at 450hp b/c I was already disappointed with the 18g "upgrade" I did last year. I haven't maxxed it out yet, and I really am shooting for an 11.7 sec 1/4 before I dump the 18g. I ran <<< that time when it was internally gated with a 2g mani & stock O2 housing.

 

[dsm-onster]

Your current turbo is plenty good for 11.5 if you really want it. It's an evo3 16g with a better flowing turbine and a better flowing compressor. Pretty simple.

500whp is not the limit of your drivetrain for a reliability. It's more like 390whp. . . So it's a crap shoot. the hx40 will hit softer on your drivetrain; but no matter what, you'll eat trannies at such a level of performance. Sorry for the bad news. In your case, it will come down to street time; and with alot of street time, a softer hitting turbo will net you the longest gearset life if yuou're not into self control or reasonableness like the rest of us. . . So I would suggest an hx40. It spools slower and is more boring. Have fun

 

[Gstclipse69]

This thread has been very informative for me. Thanks for everyones input.


You'll need to radius the 12cm^2 housing divider. OR I think PTE sells a turbine to manifold gasket that has a radiused divider piece in it that makes your divided housing have a smoother transition from the collector to the housing. . .


By this Im guessing you mean take a die grinder to it and smoothing the transition? Anyone have any pics? Or a link to that dividing gasket?

 

[dsmusmc]

Or save your pennys for the JMFab twin scroll manifold. I broke the bank but I think in the long run it will be worth it. Here is my hx35 with the 12cm divided housing if I deside to stay that route.

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[Gstclipse69]

Man that is a nice manifold. I bet your spool time will be great. Unfortunately I can't bring myself to spend that much money on a manifold. I have been pondering the last few days on a setup and either I will go with a treadstone/turbonetics t3 cast manifold, just like TimG runs OR I have been thinking about this the last couple days-

Dark Performance makes a divided t4 manifold that can be had for about 500. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/ven...ormance-t4-manifolds-just-479-99-shipped.html
What if I could run that manifold with an adapter that goes from a divided t4 to a divided t3? I know there would be a neck down, but then I would have a divided manifold setup. I like the idea but of course I will throw this out there for you guys superior speculation.
Here is an adapter I found on ebay: T4 divided manifold to T3 divided turbo adapter 3/4":eBay Motors (item 110373544558 end time Aug-03-09 18:09:17 PDT)

 

[dsmusmc]

If you jump up to the hx40 in stead of the 35 there stock housings are T4. Quick spool with 35R power.