60 trim setup questions???

[fwdeclipse]

Ok so I now know I have a 60trim turbo.I just wanna know how far my 650s will take me with this turbo.I know I will need something bigger to run it to its max.Will I be able to run 20psi with 650s.I also am running water/meth injection if that makes a difference.With my e316g I had my timing up to 19* will I have to lower that by much to not knock with this turbo.Last question is my 190lph fuel pump(rewired) gonna flow enough for this turbo.Let me know what you guys think.

 

[brute]

First of all, what kind of turbo is it? The trim tells me nothing.
Secondly, what do you mean max out the turbo? Like full race gas, 30psi? Maxed out on the street? Maxing out your motor? If you had a horsepower goal in mind, we could tell you how far your fuel mods will take you.

Oh, and why don't you just turn up the boost until you see knock or hit fuel cut. Then you'll know how far you can take it at this point.

 

[fwdeclipse]

It is a t3 garrett turbo.With a 60 trim compressor wheel.It has a .68ar turbine housing.60ar compressor housing,I beleive it is a t04e cover.I guess Im not sure what I mean by maxing it out.I want to beable to be close to 400whp.If that answers your question.Do you know or have any idea when it would spool on a 2.0.

 

[GVR4592]

Sounds like a straight T4 not a T3/T4. I've never seen a .68 T3 turbine housing before. Are you sure it's even a 60 trim? Take some measurements of the wheels and post some pictures of the housings, if you're not sure.

 

[brute]

He probably just misread it and it's really a .63ar. That turbo should be able to reach your goal, but you will need a larger fuel pump (255 or Supra TT) and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator along with that. Depending on turbine wheel and the nature of the turbo (T3/T4, straight T4, etc.), spool characteristics will vary. Some pictures or mesurements would help immensely.

 

[fwdeclipse]

I already measured it on the other question I had i just started another thread.The inducer is 2.285 exducer-2.950. I cant get the turbine housing off its stuck but I tried to get the caliper in there and I get a kinda measuremnt around 2.555.I did not misread it says .68 I took a pic of it and its kinda blurry its the best one I could get.

 

[GVR4592]

I don't have a lot of experience with T4 turbo's, but that looks like T4 turbine housing to me. Without a turbine wheel measurement it will be hard to estimate approximately at what RPM it would spool. What's keeping the turbine housing from coming off?

 

[fwdeclipse]

I got the turbo from a guy that had turbo on his tundra,one of the sts kits.It has rust on it and is kind of stuck it wont pull apart.So if its a t4 turbine housing will a manifold thats says is for a t3/t4 not work with it?

 

[GVR4592]

No it wouldn't work. You'll need something with a T4 flange if it is a T4 flanged turbo. I'm sure somebody with experience with T4 turbo's will pop in here. Maye you could measure the flange and compare it with some specs on the net.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

The 190 can't quite keep up with the EVO 16g, so that should answer that question. Assuming target AFRs of 11:1 on pump gas and 12:1 on race gas, 43 psi base, and a max compressor flow of about 60 lbs/min, the smallest I'd go on the injector is 850cc.

You can get most tubular manifolds in T3 or T4 style. That's a relatively small compressor for a t4, and for a P trim turbine wheel if I remember correctly from the other thread. Hard to say what it will spool at (60 trim with a more typical hotside will spool in the low 4000s), but it should make for some mean top end and good pump gas power

 

[fwdeclipse]

The 190 can't quite keep up with the EVO 16g, so that should answer that question. Assuming target AFRs of 11:1 on pump gas and 12:1 on race gas, 43 psi base, and a max compressor flow of about 60 lbs/min, the smallest I'd go on the injector is 850cc.

You can get most tubular manifolds in T3 or T4 style. That's a relatively small compressor for a t4, and for a P trim turbine wheel if I remember correctly from the other thread. Hard to say what it will spool at (60 trim with a more typical hotside will spool in the low 4000s), but it should make for some mean top end and good pump gas power

SO are you thinking its a t3 or a t4.Ill just measure the flange and research a little.

 

[fwdeclipse]

I searched around and the t4 style looks more square instead of the more rectangular shape.Here is a pic of the t4 style flange,it looks square so i think mine is a t3 flange.What do you guys think?

 

[fwdeclipse]

Here is a pic of a t3 flange tell me what you guys think.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Just keep it simple and get a Bullseye housing for it.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

that is definitely a T4 housing. A turbo like that will be all top end on a setup like yours. Find out which turbine wheel it is by measuring it some how and then i would recommend you do call bullseye and get a bolt on housing that will make this perform in a way that would be appropriate for your build.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

oh and your fuel system will not support the power that this turbo will make. if you want to maximize it pick up some 750 or 850 injectors, a 255 and a good fuel pressure regulator.

sure you could squeeze some power out of your current setup by no where close to what this turbo could do for you.

 

[fwdeclipse]

So you guys say not to use it if its a t4 housing because it will spool to late.As long as it would spool by 4500-4800 I think i could handle that.If I call bullseye and I get a turbine housing from them what kind of flange do they use.There is a local performance shop that said he has a dsm t4 manifold for sell for like 175 bucks.I will try and get the turbine housing off and measure the wheel so I can maybe fine out how long it will take to spool this sucker.I dont want to use a mitsu housing if I dont have to.I would have to buy another manifold anyway if i use a bullseye housing because I need a external wastegate flanged to the manifold.I thought I had this figured out and now im all scrambled on what to do.

 

[brute]

The good thing about Bullseye housings that everyone is telling you to get is that they are made to accept a Garrett-style center section and wheels, but still bolts on to the Mitsu-style manifold. Therefore, you could get a different housing from Bullseye that would allow you to bolt the turbo right on to the manifold you have. And while you're at it, you might even be able to get the housing with a smaller a/r so it'd spool quicker (if you're worried about it). I believe you can go as small as a .48 a/r, but don't quote me on that. The best thing to do at this point would be to give Bullseye a call and ask what they suggest you do in this situation.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

no need for an external wastegate or anything bro. If you go and pick up a bullseye housing you can get a good internal wastegate from them and call it a day.

Also, if a T4 mani is only $175 i would suspect it is from SSA or some other cheap knock off company that won't hold up too long with something like a T4 hanging from it.

 

[fwdeclipse]

Ok I went ahead and got the turbine housing off the exducer is 2.525 and the inducer is 2.885.I already have an external wastegate and dont want to run a larger turbo with an internal.I already have made my custom o2 housing for this setup.Im going to take a look at this mani this guy is selling and see if its worth a damn.

So knowing how big the turbine wheel is,where do you guys think this thing would spool full boost at?I would just get a bullseye housing but I already have this setup pretty much already done.Just need the mani and a couple slim fans and its done.Let me know if you guys can tell me abouts on spoolup.IF it will be anything over 4800rpm than I will probably have to try a bullseye housing but with as far as i am with what I have now I would like to use with what I have.Thanks for all the input so far its very appreciated.

This car is far from my daily driver.I have owned it for more than a year and only put 3k miles on it.Its pretty much a weekend car and I take it to the drag strip a half dozen times a year so spool is not that important to me,unless its ridiculous.

 

[Reese92tsi]

I ran that EXACT same turbo on my fwd with an ssautochrome T4 mani and Tial 38 and all I can say is you are not going to be dissapointed. Top end power with this setup was unreal, even in third gear it was very hard to stay off the 8500rpm rev limiter when the tires hooked up. This turbo setup is great for a fwd because the boost comes on very smoothly thus giving the tires a chance to hook up. Knock was almost nonexistant on pump gas with this setup due to the hotside and some other little tricks. I was running 25psi on pump with full timing adv/zero knock and I would have ran 28-30 on pump but the stock flywheel exploded during a tuning session .

 

[fwdeclipse]

Wow that is exactly what I wanted to hear from somebody.Can you remember when it spooled.How big of injectors were you running.

 

[Reese92tsi]

I never really payed attention to when it was fully spooled because the main focus was on the road and not crashing the car (this thing zips thru the gears like you would not believe ). From a boost threshold point of view it would be considered laggy but the actual LAG time wasn't bad at all. In first gear full boost was reached around 8000rpm, 2nd around 7500, 3rd about the same as 2nd, in fourth I never really payed attention. You are probably looking at those boost threshold #'s like WTF but those numbers are a MOOT point due to the fact that it only takes about .6 secs going from 1psi to full boost. With this setup I was easily able to build 20+psi at partial throttle and whenever I wanted boost it was right there so from a LAG point of view it wasn't laggy at all. Your setup will probably spool up alot quicker than mine being that you have a stock 2g head vs my fully ported 1g head with FP2 cams. To improve spool up make sure you run a 4" intake pipe on this turbo.
I run Pte 880s and these should be an absolute minimum with a setup like this (I regret not buying Pte 1000s). If you plan on getting the most out of the T4/60 trim sell your 650s at get some Fic 950s or PTE 1000s (fic 850s or pte 880s will be enough but if you want to upgrade ONCE get the 950s or 1000s) and that 190lph pump obviously isn't going to be enough, get a 255HP and AFPR and you'll be set.
I hope you have some good tires. If conditions aren't just right (the tires and ground are too cold) you will spin well into 4th (my case).
The ssautochrome T4 manifold works great (direct copy of DNP) and the piping is damn near 3mm thick so it shouldn't crack. It isn't braced as well as the DNP so you might want weld some extra bracing on it. I welded a tial 38 flange on top of their 40mm flange to avoid having to use one of their knock off wastegates or buying a tial 40.


BTW Don't even think of putting this turbo in a mitsu housing it will take away all the fun

 

[fwdeclipse]

I never really payed attention to when it was fully spooled because the main focus was on the road and not crashing the car (this thing zips thru the gears like you would not believe ). From a boost threshold point of view it would be considered laggy but the actual LAG time wasn't bad at all. In first gear full boost was reached around 8000rpm, 2nd around 7500, 3rd about the same as 2nd, in fourth I never really payed attention. You are probably looking at those boost threshold #'s like WTF but those numbers are a MOOT point due to the fact that it only takes about .6 secs going from 1psi to full boost. With this setup I was easily able to build 20+psi at partial throttle and whenever I wanted boost it was right there so from a LAG point of view it wasn't laggy at all. Your setup will probably spool up alot quicker than mine being that you have a stock 2g head vs my fully ported 1g head with FP2 cams. To improve spool up make sure you run a 4" intake pipe on this turbo.
I run Pte 880s and these should be an absolute minimum with a setup like this (I regret not buying Pte 1000s). If you plan on getting the most out of the T4/60 trim sell your 650s at get some Fic 950s or PTE 1000s (fic 850s or pte 880s will be enough but if you want to upgrade ONCE get the 950s or 1000s) and that 190lph pump obviously isn't going to be enough, get a 255HP and AFPR and you'll be set.
I hope you have some good tires. If conditions aren't just right (the tires and ground are too cold) you will spin well into 4th (my case).
The ssautochrome T4 manifold works great (direct copy of DNP) and the piping is damn near 3mm thick so it shouldn't crack. It isn't braced as well as the DNP so you might want weld some extra bracing on it. I welded a tial 38 flange on top of their 40mm flange to avoid having to use one of their knock off wastegates or buying a tial 40.


BTW Don't even think of putting this turbo in a mitsu housing it will take away all the fun

Yeah thanks for all the input,you are making me more excited to put this turbo on asap.Now like you said i was like WTF When you put those spool numbers.Are you saying I wont see 20psi of boost until 8k.If thats the case I dont think it will work cause im still on the stock head and I cant even rev that high.Maybe I am misunderstanding you.Im sure I am otherwise spooling at 8k would not make sense for any turbo.Let me know if im mistaken or if thats is really what you meant.


Yeah im not going to put it in a mitsu housing.I am probably going to buy some 850s.Do you know if keydiver chip can compensate for that large of a injector?

 

[Reese92tsi]

In lower gears theres very little load on the motor so boost build is going to be alittle slower. The boost threshold of a turbo setup is usually determined in 4th gear instead of the lower gears. In fourth gear my eyes were glued to the road so I never had a chance to check the spool up but I estimate that it was somewhere between 5000-5300. Like I said, your setup will spool up alot quicker than mine because I have a somewhat heavily ported 1G head (very large ports) and FP2 cams. My car has always been laggy with every turbo I ran so its not an accurate representation of how well your setup will spool. Those spool numbers don't mean s**t because the rate of rpm rise in 3rd is damn near the same as it is in 1st and 2nd . With the T4 hotside airflow is extremely high at even at low boost levels so the entire gear is completed while you are spooling, going from 80 to 115 in 3rd gear once the tires bit only took about .9-1.3secs. I never had a chance to take it to the dyno or track but that thing had to have been trapping every bit of 130+mph in the 1/4 on pump. Boost recovery was pretty good and will be even better with NLTS (I never had to use it).
I run my 880s with a keydivers chip and the car idles and runs smooth as stock, he can compensate for 1000s and 1000s are what you should run so you'll never have to upgrade injectors again.
My 60 trim got destroyed in the flywheel explosion so once I get it running again within the next month I think I'm going to step up (T4/GT40 or Turbonetics t61). I'm leaning towards the Turbonetics t61 due to the fact that tip speed is kept lower above 30psi due to the larger exducer thus leading to greater efficiency.

BTW if you still think that its going to dissapoint you should sell it to me and run a bolt on 50 trim instead