Turbo selection? mods posted.

[Denji]

Johnny Racecar Big Core FMIC Greddy Upper and Lower Intercooler Piping Greddy B.O.V. Hard intake pipe K & N air filter NGK Ignition wires Turbo XS Boost controller South bend Clutch DXD rally clutch Bosal 3' SS catback exhaust t-28 killer turbocharger ported evo 3 exhaust manifold walbro 190lph fuel pump 3" high flow catalytic converter 3" downpipe (no neckdowns in exhaust system) B & M short throw shifter Symbroski Shift kit

RIP=t28 killer

I have 700 dollars. Im not bringing this car past injectors and a tune beyond what i already have, which means around 300 whp is the most im trying to make.

I need a turbo i can trust, and that will last while making the power i want. Now i ask the DSM community, help me select a good turbo.

 

[dalatinromeo]

If you are not looking for more than 300 whp try to max out that t28.

If you want more than your t28 go with an EVO3 16g, and just incase you ever want to go bigger go with some variant 50 trim.

 

[andymoraitis]

For cost effectiveness, an EVO III would likely be your best bet.

 

[fourreGsixty3]

He doesn't have the T28 any more...note the "RIP=t28 killer" Im thinking that means it died on him. It would be pointless for him to get a 16G because he doesn't want to go past the injectors he already has...since he didnt list any Im going on the fact that they are stock, and depending on the octane of gas he is using, it would be a waste. If he has 91 octane he will need to buy 550s just to run 16psi, if on 93 octane then he doesn't need injectors. And to see any potential more then a 14B he would want to run 18+psi on that 16G and that would require injectors which he doesnt want to do. I would say get a 14B, this is no slouch of a turbo, make sure it has to shaft play in/out, or too much side to side, a little is ok, but if when you wiggle it and the fins hit the turbine housing its no good. My vote is for a 14B...that is if you have stock injectors, if you have larger ingectors, and didnt list them then go 16G for sure. If you have no worries about buying a used turbo go 14B, if you want a new turbo, spend 500$ on an MHI EVO III 16G, and keep the psi at about 16-18 if on 93 octane, if on 91 keep it at 16 or lower.

Dustin

 

[Denji]

He doesn't have the T28 any more...note the "RIP=t28 killer" Im thinking that means it died on him. It would be pointless for him to get a 16G because he doesn't want to go past the injectors he already has...since he didnt list any Im going on the fact that they are stock, and depending on the octane of gas he is using, it would be a waste. If he has 91 octane he will need to buy 550s just to run 16psi, if on 93 octane then he doesn't need injectors. And to see any potential more then a 14B he would want to run 18+psi on that 16G and that would require injectors which he doesnt want to do. I would say get a 14B, this is no slouch of a turbo, make sure it has to shaft play in/out, or too much side to side, a little is ok, but if when you wiggle it and the fins hit the turbine housing its no good. My vote is for a 14B...that is if you have stock injectors, if you have larger ingectors, and didnt list them then go 16G for sure. If you have no worries about buying a used turbo go 14B, if you want a new turbo, spend 500$ on an MHI EVO III 16G, and keep the psi at about 16-18 if on 93 octane, if on 91 keep it at 16 or lower.

Dustin

Luckily we have 93 octane here, I will take this into consideration for sure, either way i will have to invest in an install kit. Thanks for clearing up the t28 killer issue, no i dont have it and its 600 to get repaired, id rather go with a mitsubishi turbo now, i dont trust the hybrids anymore really, it went out unexpectedly and waaaaaaay early. You think a 14b would do similar to a evo 16g on 16-18psi 93 octane? Thats pretty much what it comes down to for me, i wont probably run past 18psi with this car. Anyone know how long i can expect an evo 16g to hold up if i turbo timed it and maintained the car well?

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Yes a 14B can push 16-18psi easily, people have taken them higher then that, but that is with proper mods, and maintenance, I have 190k miles on mine that I know of, that is unless it was replaced by a previous owner, and it has only the slightest amount of side to side1-2mm, which is normal on even brand new turbo's. A turbo can last you for ever long as its well taken care of. The 16g and the 14B would do the same in the 16-18psi range, much past 18psi and you are nearing the 14Bs efficency range, but since you have a FMIC this efficiency range is uped a bit more then if you had a stock SMIC. If you are staying in the 16-18psi range with 93 octane I would go 16G because has a larger efficency range, so if you do want to ever up the boost, all you would have to do is get larger injectors, and a good tune, and you would still be within the 16Gs efficency range. Also note that the high octane you use allows you to run higher levels of boost on stock injectors...but only to a certain point, Im not saying that you can run 25psi with c16 and stock injectors by any means.

Dustin

 

[andymoraitis]

I think efficiency's a bit overrated when it comes to making power. I've run my turbos out of their efficiency range and as long as I could tune around the high intake charge temps, I went faster and made more power in the absence of knock.

For this particular application, I think that if you plan on staying with stock injectors, there's no need to use anything over a 14B. If you want to run in the 17-18 psi range, 450's will be stretched and while you can dial up more fuel pressure to compensate, this is somewhat of a bandaid to lower IDC's.

If you have 700.00 to spend, I'd spend it on a complete package:

EPROM ECU/Keydiver chip with a custom timing and A/F maps (I'll help you with the tune)
Used EVO 560cc injectors or used 550's
Used Big 16G

You could spend around 700.00 for all of that and have more of a complete package so that you can run 21-22 psi on pump and have the ability to monitor knock.

The hard part about making recommendations is that there's 1000 ways to reach the same destination. I just don't want to see you take 200 back roads when the highway would have gotten you there sooner.

Please pardon the analogy. Sometimes I can't help myself.

 

[killakev805]

if you want 300 whp, your gonna need injectors regardless, so I would advise you to take that $700 and get you a 16g, and call FIC and get some 650cc inj and you will be able to max out a 16g when you want, and tune it down for everyday. as far as reliability: I have a 16g on my GS-t I have had it on there since Febuary, I run it at 20 psi everyday and it was used when I got it, I would say it is at least 3 years old, and I haven't had a problem with it.

When I had a 14b I pushed it at 18 psi and dyno'd at 223 whp, and 235 tq. to the front wheels, that is no where near your goal, so I def. think you should go with a 16g.

 

[andymoraitis]

I run it at 20 psi everyday and it was used when I got it, I would say it is at least 3 years old, and I haven't had a problem with it.

Yup, I can echo that sentiment. I ran mine at 24-26 psi for more than 18 months and it had zero shaft play when I sold it. Good little turbo if you ask me.

 

[fourreGsixty3]

I think efficiency's a bit overrated when it comes to making power. I've run my turbos out of their efficiency range and as long as I could tune around the high intake charge temps, I went faster and made more power in the absence of knock.

Thats definately true, but your good at tuning, and he doesn't want to get more of a tune then what he has, as he said in his first post.

EPROM ECU/Keydiver chip with a custom timing and A/F maps (I'll help you with the tune)
Used EVO 560cc injectors or used 550's
Used Big 16G

This is a good set-up that will be great all around and allow for future power to be made.

Dustin

 

[Denji]

I actually have a set of 550 injectors, problem is, in order to get a 16g i'd have to sell them. Really i only have around 450, the rest i was going to get by selling these injectors. What i was trying to say is that i would go NO FURTHER than a tune and injectors from where i am at, not sure i will do that or not, sorry if i was unclear. Thanks for all the responses! Keep them coming!

 

[fourreGsixty3]

If thats the case, I would keep them, and save up a couple hundred more, and get the 2G instal kit with the 16G, and go have it tuned in for peak performance.

Dustin

 

[Denji]

my car is sitting in the front driveway and i only have rides to school til the 19th, then im screwed if i dont have a ride. So basically it has to be resolved in a timely fashion. Seems like my best bet may be to buy a 2g install kit and a 14b with my cash, then save up for the 16g.

 

[killakev805]

or, I can see that you probably don't have a turbo on your car yet??? You could sell your injectors, get the 16g keep it at low boost like 12-14psi save up some money and then get some new injectors. I would recomend eventually getting some bigger injectors than 550's anyway, it always better to have a little extra fuel than not enough .

 

[2gGSX]

In all honesty (and I'm going to get lambasted for this) you could just get the Evo III or Big 16g or whatever variant you like and throw it on there for the time being while you save up some money for some sort of fuel control for your injectors. The key thing to remember if you do do this however, is that you will have to go easy on the car/throttle. Your car still has fuel cut enabled so that will help act as a safety measure, however with the tendency to creep (sans immaculate porting) you still have to be careful.

This way you can not waste money in going from the 14b to a 16g. I operated like this for about a year, and it does suck just to let you know

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Yeah I could see that route coming to play killakev. Actually it seems like a good idea if you need the car back up and running before the 19th, so sell those injectors for now, and get a 16G with instal kit for a 2G.

Dustin

 

[Denji]

who makes a good install kit? anyone know? There is so many...

 

[fourreGsixty3]

SBR is good>>>http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=93&, heres the link for the MHI EVO III 16G>>>http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=52&

Dustin

 

[Denji]

How important is it to have the larger flapper on the evo III 16g (MHI)? i found one with install kit for like 680 bucks.

 

[killakev805]

How important is it to have the larger flapper on the evo III 16g (MHI)? i found one with install kit for like 680 bucks.

it is a must have if you want to control boost creep, but if you can't afford it just get that car running so you have transportation and watch the boost and get off the throttle when it creeps too much. I don't have the flapper mod on mine, and it doesn't matter what I set my boost at, for example I can set it at 10 psi, but it will still creep all the way to 20 psi . That is why I just run 20 psi everyday, but trust me I have learned very well when to let off.

 

[Denji]

seriously? ouch.. i dont want to deal with that. I'm going to see what i can do... maybe my girlfriend will lend me like 50 bucks... . Hey i bet shes tired of driving me around right?. I ported my evo exhaust mani, so i was considering porting off the lip on the evo 16g, any input on this?

 

[killakev805]

it will help, my boost creep is probably the worst case of boost creep I or anyone else has seen, If I were you I wouldn't expect to get it that bad. I just have too many exhaust leaks, plus I run a 3" dp and 3" all the way back, if you run a 2.5" dp and then open it up to 3" later it will be better. Don't let my boost creep problems scare you away from having a bad ass turbo. I love it.

 

[Denji]

it will help, my boost creep is probably the worst case of boost creep I or anyone else has seen, If I were you I wouldn't expect to get it that bad. I just have too many exhaust leaks, plus I run a 3" dp and 3" all the way back, if you run a 2.5" dp and then open it up to 3" later it will be better. Don't let my boost creep problems scare you away from having a bad ass turbo. I love it.

actually i have a full 3 inch from downpipe back, though i am still running stock o2 housing and i do have a 3 inch catalytic converter on the car.

 

[killakev805]

the cat will help you, I am running an EvoIII o2 housing, 3" exhaust all the way back with no cat. plus I have a couple of troublesome exhaust leaks, those really add to my boost creep problems.

 

[2gGSX]

it is a must have if you want to control boost creep, but if you can't afford it just get that car running so you have transportation and watch the boost and get off the throttle when it creeps too much. I don't have the flapper mod on mine, and it doesn't matter what I set my boost at, for example I can set it at 10 psi, but it will still creep all the way to 20 psi . That is why I just run 20 psi everyday, but trust me I have learned very well when to let off.

If you want to control boost creep, the general consensus is to either get the mods to run 20 psi, go external, or port properly. kenamond has a great series of posts here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=50434034&postcount=5

If that doesn't help, then check this thread out: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229619&highlight=evo+wastegate+porting

Finally, the best cure for this IMO is to take it easy and avoid nailing it or taking pulls to a high RPM. I personally don't have experience with the 34mm flapper mod, but it supposedly does work fairly well. The problem however is that while running high boost you have more problems with the wastegate flapper blowing over (force = pressure x area, so more area = more force in a linear relationship). There have been people with the 34mm flapper mod who reportedly hold high boost, but do have dropoff to ~19 psi by redline whereas people with the stock flapper generally have seen less dropoff (a la ShapeGSX and others).

My advice to you is still to get some sort of 16g so you can get your daily driver back on the road and just take it easy with the car. As for install kits, the turbochargers.com install kit worked well for me.