18G & EV0 3 Battle. “Final Closure”

[Eclipse223]

Well boys and girls I would say this is a big discussion and even with all the info out there it is an on going battle. I keep say to my self I am an 18g fan and have been for a number of years. I will have to say I do not have one I am looking to get one, but I can not get over all the battles about 18g vs. EV0 3 well this is the end of it please guys lets put our brains in this and think.


1. I would say the reason everyone like the evo3 better over the 18G would be because the 18g has not ever tested the waters like the evo3 crowd witch I hope it will one of these days.

2. The EV0 3 is a lot cheaper then the 18g witch would tell us why it has not been tested by the wonderful DSM crowd. Well I hope this will finally get some good closure on and some exact numbers and times.


I leave the rest of this topic to Greater & Wiser DSMer's then me.


Thanks Guys.



Brien

 

[4BangR-x]

why do you want an 18g? Its not worth the money at all.

 

[tstkl]

yea, I was looking at the 18g for a while, and they are just more expensive less efficent turbos. They might have a higher flow max, but they won't spool as fast and will create more heat. If anything, just get an evo3 and port it out.

 

[GVR4592]

Yup, I've had both. The Evo 3 is the better turbo. Quicker spool, more efficient, and a lot cheaper.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

So just how much less efficient is an 18G? Does anyone have a compressor map? IMO, its pushing that TDO5 compressor housing too far.

 

[wishihadatalon]

That is interesting. My friend had a tdo5 18g and it spooled the same as my 16g. Pulled alot harder too. Oh yeah another guy I know is trapping 125 on a 18g.

 

[mobythevan]

It was not my choice to have an 18G, but that is what is in my car. I don't hit 14psi until 4000rpm. I have checked over everything and it just doesn't seem to get any better than that (3rd gear). Once spooled it pulls hard all the way to the rev limiter. My results FWIW.

 

[illeffekt vr-4]

my galant came with a b16g. i got a really good deal on an 18g from forced performance and i slapped on a 7cm housing on it. i didn't notice any difference in spool time, however with both turbos set at 14.5psi the 18g pulls a lot harder. then i decided to sell the b16g and keep the 18g.

 

[DSMunknown]

If anything, just get an evo3 and port it out.

Search some of ShapeGSX's posts that regard EVO III discussions. He will tell you that porting this turbo will hinder overall performance. This is not to say that his word is the last word, but he has done superb with the EVO III without porting it. He also makes sound arguments that seem to support his case.

 

[DGajre777]

If the 18G was about $200 cheaper than the Evo III 16G, a lot more people will buy it. You get a better turbo (Evo III) for a cheaper cost.

 

[DSM90AWD]

18Gs have been around forever, though never seemed to have much of a following prol due to the cost (could get a 20G for a little more). Everyone I've met that ran one loved them.

Forced Performance has the TD05H version of the 18G with wheel clipping for $100 more than the EVOIII 16G. Not a bad deal for the extra flow potential

 

[MyBeatGSX]

my galant came with a b16g. i got a really good deal on an 18g from forced performance and i slapped on a 7cm housing on it. i didn't notice any difference in spool time, however with both turbos set at 14.5psi the 18g pulls a lot harder. then i decided to sell the b16g and keep the 18g.

Keep in mind that the B16G and the E16G are not comparable at all. The maps for both compressors are worlds different. The B16G is a horribly inefficient piece of crap.

And obviously putting a larger exhaust housing on it will make it pull harder.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

Well screw you guys... I have a small 16g. Does anyone have any 18g compressor maps compared to a 20g ?

 

[mobythevan]

is there a real 18G compressor map? or just the one that says "made by squeazing a 20G map"?

 

[Stoner]

I have no personal experience with the 18g but I like my EVO III turbo. It is ported but not clipped.

 

[wishihadatalon]

Keep in mind that the B16G and the E16G are not comparable at all. The maps for both compressors are worlds different. The B16G is a horribly inefficient piece of crap.

And obviously putting a larger exhaust housing on it will make it pull harder.

so inefficient that with a 6cm housing on my big 16g I went 12.5 108.9mph on pump gas, stock motor down on comp in one cylinder, stock cams, and stock intake manifold. Thats around the same times I see for alot of evo3 16gs.
You are right in saying that the evo is better but to say the big 16g is a complete pos is just dumb.

 

[Strm Trpr]

I have an 18g.
I'm only set to 10psi right now due to not having fuel management yet.
I will be upgrading a ton of stuff including suspension.
It'll take me a month or so to get everything done, but I will post up once completed.

 

[DSM90AWD]

so inefficient that with a 6cm housing on my big 16g I went 12.5 108.9mph on pump gas, stock motor down on comp in one cylinder, stock cams, and stock intake manifold

Did you meant to say 7cm housing or did you stick a Big16G comp wheel on a 14B

A decent FMIC can make up for an inefficient turbo, though I'm suprised the Big16G is still sold as the "EVOIII" 16G (from what I understand) was Mitsu's replacement for it utilizing a better parts/materials

 

[mavisky]

I've got an unclipped tdo5 18g on a 7cm housing and it works great for me. 13.0's @ 112mph on 20psi and 94 octane pump gas on street tires and stock internals, yet still spools fast enough to be a good turbo for autox'ing.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

so inefficient that with a 6cm housing on my big 16g I went 12.5 108.9mph on pump gas, stock motor down on comp in one cylinder, stock cams, and stock intake manifold. Thats around the same times I see for alot of evo3 16gs.
You are right in saying that the evo is better but to say the big 16g is a complete pos is just dumb.

And you would be making significantly more power with an Evo 16G.

Look at the compressor map for yourself and tell me its not a piece of garbage. Most Eaton blowers are more efficient.

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That's right, PEAK efficiency is a piss poor 71% and that's over an extremely tiny range that your turbo will never see. You most likely operating that poor thing in the 60% range, if not completely off the chart.

Compare this to a small 16G that has similar efficiency to an Evo III, albeit over a lower flow range. Maybe ShapeGSX would be kind enough to post up an actual Evo III map.

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This turbo peaks at 77% efficiency, which is worlds better than a big 16G. But the biggest difference is that even when pushed to higher flows, it still remains far more efficient than the Big 16G, which drops efficiency very rapidly in both the higher flow and high pressure ratio directions.


In all honesty, you can have whatever opinion you want, but that map speaks for itself. That turbo is an embarassment. The wheel is just too big for the housing in that configuration. Whatever they changed about the Evo III made an enormous difference. So the bottom line is... don't bring Big 16G's into the comparision.


And again, Shape, if you see this can you please post up an actual Evo III chart so everyone can see the difference.

 

[WhtEclipse705]

Eclipse223, just go with what you find. If you find a turbo in good shape, for a great price. then buy it and try it. i just purchased an 18g, and have not installed it yet, but when i do, i know i will be happy. if you find a good deal on a 18g, buy it, if you find a good deal on a EvoIII, buy it. in the end, they are both going to be sweet.

 

[wishihadatalon]

Did you meant to say 7cm housing or did you stick a Big16G comp wheel on a 14B

A decent FMIC can make up for an inefficient turbo, though I'm suprised the Big16G is still sold as the "EVOIII" 16G (from what I understand) was Mitsu's replacement for it utilizing a better parts/materials

Here is the story. I bought my car with a big16g from what the previous owner says. 2 bolts were broke in the 7cm housing so I used a 14b turbine housing. I hand spun the blades and everything was fine so I used it knowing I would be upgrading.

 

[andymoraitis]

In all honesty, you can have whatever opinion you want, but that map speaks for itself. That turbo is an embarassment. The wheel is just too big for the housing in that configuration. Whatever they changed about the Evo III made an enormous difference. So the bottom line is... don't bring Big 16G's into the comparision.

I have no issue with the information you're presenting, however be careful of the WAY in which you present it. Despite the fact that a Big 16G has a much smaller efficiency window than a Small 16G or the EVO III, I wouldn't be so quick to call it garbage. I too went 12.5's at 108 on a stock motor, stock cams, stock intake, sidemount and full weight on pump gas and octane booster at 24 psi with more on tap. Are there better turbos out there for the money? Yes. Is the Big 16G garbage? Absolutely not. I would consider it an inefficient design compared to a small or an EVO III, but I certainly wouldn't dimiss it completely or relegate it to trash status.

 

[WhtEclipse705]

I have no issue with the information you're presenting, however be careful of the WAY in which you present it. Despite the fact that a Big 16G has a much smaller efficiency window than a Small 16G or the EVO III, I wouldn't be so quick to call it garbage. I too went 12.5's at 108 on a stock motor, stock cams, stock intake, sidemount and full weight on pump gas and octane booster at 24 psi with more on tap. Are there better turbos out there for the money? Yes. Is the Big 16G garbage? Absolutely not. I would consider it an inefficient design compared to a small or an EVO III, but I certainly wouldn't dimiss it completely or relegate it to trash status.

Ya, that..

 

[wishihadatalon]

I have no issue with the information you're presenting, however be careful of the WAY in which you present it. Despite the fact that a Big 16G has a much smaller efficiency window than a Small 16G or the EVO III, I wouldn't be so quick to call it garbage. I too went 12.5's at 108 on a stock motor, stock cams, stock intake, sidemount and full weight on pump gas and octane booster at 24 psi with more on tap. Are there better turbos out there for the money? Yes. Is the Big 16G garbage? Absolutely not. I would consider it an inefficient design compared to a small or an EVO III, but I certainly wouldn't dimiss it completely or relegate it to trash status.

Thank you for that.