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Old 03-22-2005, 07:38 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #1 (permalink)
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Boost leaks in Odd Places

I made a leak tester and did a test, I seem to be pushing air from 3 area's I know of.

1. Breather on side of valve cover
2. Oil dip stick tube
3. Cam seals

Now ?
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Old 03-22-2005, 07:52 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1992
I made a leak tester and did a test, I seem to be pushing air from 3 area's I know of.

1. Breather on side of valve cover
2. Oil dip stick tube
3. Cam seals

Now ?
If i where you id do a compression test and leak down test

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Old 03-22-2005, 07:54 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #3 (permalink)
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Compression is 136 across at only 90,000 miles
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Old 03-22-2005, 08:08 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1992
Compression is 136 across at only 90,000 miles

Did you check it while the engine was at Normal operating temp?

IF so it sounds like boost is leaking past your rings :eek:

Could also be Valve Seals tho

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Old 03-22-2005, 09:57 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #5 (permalink)
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1. Start the pressure test from the licp, if problem fixed it's the turbo seal. If not, go to 2.

2. Unplug the pcv hose from the intake manifold and plug it up and repeat pressure test. If problem fix change the pcv valve. If not, go to 3.

3. Do a wet compression test to see if numbers changes drastically. If so, bad rings. If not, I would guess intake valve seals.

Hope that helped.

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Old 03-22-2005, 10:02 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notractiongst
Did you check it while the engine was at Normal operating temp?

IF so it sounds like boost is leaking past your rings :eek:

Could also be Valve Seals tho
No the engine was only half warmed up, do I do it at full operating temp?

The turbo is suppose to be like new I bought it off the site iwner luda, its a big 16g and it spins frelly with very little play.

The PCV is brand new 2 days old.

I'll give your guys suggestions a try, but It seems as though im getting pressure within the cylinder head which is weird as F*&)
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Old 03-22-2005, 10:09 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1992
I'll give your guys suggestions a try, but It seems as though im getting pressure within the cylinder head which is weird as F*&)
You're exactly right about the cylnder head being pressurized. Those suggestions are possible places where intake air can leak into the crank case.

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Old 03-22-2005, 10:12 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman
You're exactly right about the cylnder head being pressurized. Those suggestions are possible places where intake air can leak into the crank case.
So most likely its valves seals right? Thats the only thing that would let air from the combustion chamber into the head. But, I got air coming outta my dip stick tibe also arggg So much for a fixer upper.
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Old 03-22-2005, 10:13 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1992
No the engine was only half warmed up, do I do it at full operating temp?
yea make sure shes nice and hot things tend to expand when they get warm so you'll get a better seal

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Old 03-22-2005, 10:20 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #10 (permalink)
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A local dsm'er just told me to block the PCV opening on the intake manifold, Im gonna give that a tryo tomorrow and see if that fixes the leaks from the head.
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Old 03-22-2005, 10:26 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1992
So most likely its valves seals right? Thats the only thing that would let air from the combustion chamber into the head. But, I got air coming outta my dip stick tibe also arggg So much for a fixer upper.
No no no. First, you are trying to say crank case when you say cylnder head. Crank case includes the part of the head you call cylnder head and the oil pan area. The three leaks you've list are all crank case related, solve one you solve them all.

Boost can enter the crank case in many different ways.

1. Turbo seal ->oil return line -> oil pan
2. Defective pcv valve.
3. The piston rings.
4. Valve seals.

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Old 03-22-2005, 10:29 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1992
A local dsm'er just told me to block the PCV opening on the intake manifold, Im gonna give that a tryo tomorrow and see if that fixes the leaks from the head.


Quote:
2. Unplug the pcv hose from the intake manifold and plug it up and repeat pressure test. If problem fix change the pcv valve. If not, go to 3.

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Old 03-22-2005, 10:30 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #13 (permalink)
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Thanks OLDMAN
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Old 03-22-2005, 10:33 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #14 (permalink)
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Thanks OLDMAN
lol You're welcome.

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Old 03-24-2005, 08:38 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #15 (permalink)
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OK capped off the port on the intake manny that connects to the PCV, replaced PVC with straight fitting and vented both valve cover breather ports via hose to the ground. I'm still getting air coming out of all of the below.

1. Breathers on valve cover
2. Oil dip stick tube
3. Cam seals
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Old 03-24-2005, 08:51 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman
1. Start the pressure test from the licp, if problem fixed it's the turbo seal. If not, go to 2.

2. Unplug the pcv hose from the intake manifold and plug it up and repeat pressure test. If problem fix change the pcv valve. If not, go to 3.

3. Do a wet compression test to see if numbers changes drastically. If so, bad rings. If not, I would guess intake valve seals.

Hope that helped.
You have just eliminated #2, did you follow #1?

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Old 03-24-2005, 08:53 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #17 (permalink)
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I'll have to try #1 tomorrow I need a piece of PVC pipe to connect my boost leak tester to my licp. I'll post up tomoroow night with the results.
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Old 03-25-2005, 03:11 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #18 (permalink)
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Hooked up leak tester to licp and it holds to about 10 psi then the brake booster seems to be making a moaning noise and letting the air out. NOW !!!
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Old 03-25-2005, 03:19 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #19 (permalink)
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Forget about the brake booster just disconnect the vacuum hose to the intake manifold and plug up the hole if you want to. What happen to the crank case issue? Stay focus.

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Old 03-25-2005, 03:40 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #20 (permalink)
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Ok with that capped off i can pressureise the system to about 20lbs, when I use to only be able to get maybe 10. So i guess the turbo seal is leaking. Good call, kinda pisses me off though as I got this turbo from ludacris (the site owner) and he said like new. $325 So my guess is turbo seal whats yours?

And why the hell is my break booster sounding off like it has an air leak at about 10-12psi?
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Old 03-25-2005, 03:52 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1992
Ok with that capped off i can pressureise the system to about 20lbs, when I use to only be able to get maybe 10. So i guess the turbo seal is leaking. Good call, kinda pisses me off though as I got this turbo from ludacris (the site owner) and he said like new. $325 So my guess is turbo seal whats yours?

And why the hell is my break booster sounding off like it has an air leak at about 10-12psi?
Are you blowing smoke under boost? Did you check for oil in the licp? Did the 3 original leaks disappear? Pressurize the system from the turbo again and see if problem reappear as a final check. I hope Chris is not reading this.

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Old 03-25-2005, 04:17 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #22 (permalink)
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I cant see if I am smoking under boost, my windows are hella tinted from the previous owner. There is a light skim of oil in the licp and theres some everytime i take my intake pipe off in the turbo inlet, its a very light coat. Yes the 3 original leaks quit completely from a pressure test to the licp, I had my oil cap off and could pressurize the system to about 18-20lbs then my BOV let off a little. I then hooked the licp back up and pressurized via turbo inlet and couldnt build more than 8-10lbs before the breathers on the valve cover started letting air out along with air from the dip stick tube. I PM'ed Luda and I hope he and I can get that problem resolved.
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:33 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1992
And why the hell is my break booster sounding off like it has an air leak at about 10-12psi?
After some searching, I found I forgot to put the check valve back in the line I replaced from the intake to the brake booster, so that should fix that loud ass moaning noise that was coming from the booster, lol
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Old 03-27-2005, 07:28 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #24 (permalink)
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Mike, In speaking with several experienced dsmers today I've learn that it's normal for the turbo seal to leak some air while it's cold, once warmed up the seal will expand and seal. If you're not smoking out of your exhaust, then I think the turbo may not be a problem. You do seem to have some boost leak issues to deal with like the check valve to the brake booster. I would continue with the leak test from licp and fix all leaks until the system can hold 20 psi. What led you to the boost leak test in the first place anyway?

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Old 03-27-2005, 07:34 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #25 (permalink)
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My brake booster moaning at 10 psi made me think I had a boost leak. I put the check valve back in and that went away. I get 22in of vaccum at idle and I boost at 11lbs now. The turbo had almost no shaft play when installed, now at about 300 miles it has alot of shaft play in and out and side to side, but still boosts 11 psi fine. I seem to only smoke on take off from what I can see. A boost leak test of the licp builds up to about 18lbs then the bov lets out and boost slowly, slowly decels.
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Old 03-27-2005, 07:55 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #26 (permalink)
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That's good, usually when a turbo is blown you would be blowing a lot of blueish smoke under boost especially right when you let off the throttle. I wanted to update you on what I've learned so you don't go on a wild goose chase.

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Old 03-27-2005, 07:56 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #27 (permalink)
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I vote oldman for wiseman

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Old 03-27-2005, 08:07 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #28 (permalink)
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I vote oldman for wiseman
I want some of that stuff you're smoking. Trust me, I'm not even close. Thanks for the thought though.

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Old 03-27-2005, 08:26 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #29 (permalink)
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I vote oldman for wiseman
I second that. Well, at least I can give him a rep point.


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Old 03-27-2005, 10:37 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1992
The turbo had almost no shaft play when installed, now at about 300 miles it has alot of shaft play in and out and side to side, but still boosts 11 psi fine. I seem to only smoke on take off from what I can see. A boost leak test of the licp builds up to about 18lbs then the bov lets out and boost slowly, slowly decels.
There are so many iffy things going on I don't know where to begin. First off this is not the first time I've heard of air bubbling up through the oil when a static test is done. If the unit was not oil primed at the time of install it then was running without oil until those chambers could fill and lube the bearings. If your oil pressure does not meet the 25-35 PSI required then it's been starved for lube. The seals were not intended to keep air out and with no oil filling the bearing and lubing the seals for sure air will escape into the crankcase.

What concerns me also is the reported 136 psi compression check you recorded which has to be very close if not excede the wear limits for allowable minimum compression. On top of that you mention smoke when taking off, my guess from some of the earlier tests you mentioned that your valve seals are shot along with maybe needing a complete engine overhaul.

Since you said the shaft had no excess free play I can only conclude that if it's now there it's been run without oiling it when you received it or the lube system isn't delivering enough pressure to prevent accelerated wear. I don't know what pressures this has seen on boost with your engine but few report 11 psi as a desirable setting.

I would suggest taking another compression check in accord with industry standards. The fact you are looking for more HP indicates you are interested in speed and power which always comes with the risk of things breaking and wearing especially if important details are overlooked.

Cheers,
GTM

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