2g ECU and tuning questions

[awdfun]

This is a log from last night - What do you all think? I see alot of 1-2 degree dips in timing, and it has me worried. More questions below...

RPM Timing O2 volts
1st gear
3760 11.0 0.94
4496 10.0 0.94
5308 16.0 0.94
6036 20.5 0.96
2nd gear
4352 10.0 0.96
4612 10.0 0.94
4928 13.5 0.96
5172 14.5 0.96
5460 16.0 0.96
5688 19.5 0.96
5932 20.0 0.96
6180 20.0 0.96
6400 18.5 0.96
6596 20.5 0.96
3rd gear
4780 12.5 0.94
4888 12.5 0.96
5072 13.5 0.94
5200 14.5 0.96
5324 14.0 0.96
5444 16.0 0.96
5564 16.5 0.96
5672 16.5 0.94
5800 18.5 0.94
5904 16.0 0.94
6008 17.0 0.94
6092 17.0 0.94
6192 17.0 0.94
6284 18.5 0.94
6376 19.5 0.94
6464 19.5 0.94
6552 20.5 0.94
4th gear
4960 11.0 0.94
5044 12.5 0.94
5124 13.5 0.94
5188 11.5 0.94
5252 12.5 0.94
5296 13.0 0.94
5352 13.0 0.94
5408 14.0 0.94
5444 14.5 0.94
5508 14.5 0.94
5564 14.0 0.94
5612 14.0 0.94
5644 14.0 0.94
5704 14.5 0.94
5748 14.5 0.94
5780 16.5 0.94
5832 16.5 0.94
5880 16.5 0.94
5916 17.0 0.94
5960 17.0 0.94
5980 17.0 0.94
6028 17.0 0.94
6072 17.0 0.94
6092 17.0 0.94
6132 17.0 0.94
6160 17.5 0.94
6192 17.0 0.96

1. Does the ECU retard timing if it sees coolant temps over a certain temp?
2. Same for intake temps - will it retard timing if it sees temps over a certian value?
3. Has anyone been able to correlate the knock counts with timing retard? I have heard the 1g ECU will not advance timing at 3-7 counts of knock, and it will retard timing at 8+ counts. Should I forget about trying to make this correlation and just get a nice steady timing curve?
4. Are the 1-2 degree dips in timing normal, or do I have some knock going on here?
5. What does elevation do to the 2g's in terms of tuning - I know that at 7000 feet elevation I can run much leaner. How is this? Isn't a 12:1 A/f ratio a 12:1 A/f ratio no matter what elevation you are at? Or do I drop in A/f at higher elevations? (sorry, I don't have a WB O2 handy)
6. Is it possible that the T-25 at this elevation just cannot support the 15 psi that I am tuning at - due to the decrease in compressor efficiency at this elevation?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can throw my way!
I have a bunch of parts in my garage that I don't want to install till I understand this a bit better...

 

[kpt4321]

1. I believe the coolant temp break point is 206 degrees, but I am not 100% sure about that. I do know that such a point exists, and it's somewhere around there.

2. There is an intake temp break point as well, somewhere in the low 100's. The way it works is, the higher you get above that point, the more timing retard you will get.

3. 0-2 knock counts, the ECU will advance timing. 3-8 or so, and it will hold timing steady. More than 9, and it will retard timing.

However, just shoot for "good" advance and a smooth curve, your log looks pretty good.

....Kyle T.
93 TSi AWD "TURBO4"
14b - 12.8 @ 108

 

[nine5raptor]

what do yo guys generally see for your operating temps? I run around 213 (with a new thermo I put in yesterday-I was around 225)...maybe that's why my timing sucks

 

[awdfun]

FYI
At speed I was around 210 or 207. In traffic/stoplights, I was 214 to 217 before the following: radiator flush, new coolant elbows, waterpump, radiator hoses, tbody hoses, heater hoses, thermostat with jiggle valve removed, and a 16 psi rad. cap.

Now my fans kick on at 214 and I have never seen above that. crusing aroud it is usually 199.

I have had the temp needle rise after 100+ mile trips - I get on the gas/boost for a bit and the needle just goes up (ack!). time for a new radiator cap I guess (I hope!).

Does anyone have solid numbers of what the intake/coolant temp cutoffs are?

Anyone have a guess as to if the timing retard/dips are knock related or due to other variables? Would the timing take a huge dip if it was knock, or just a few degrees like my logs show?

My dad had suggested doing the runs again, but bring a 5 gal can of racegas to see if the dips are really knock. Anyone tried that?

Sorry for the number of questions, just trying to learn...

 

[awdfun]

Does anyone have experience tuning at altitude here?

Any other comments/suggestions for the logs I posted?

 

[Blk_99gst]

What tuning device did you use; a pocketlgoger or something else? I've got some comments but not enough time right now. What are you mods too? I think you said t25 still.

 

[awdfun]

Blk_99gst,

I have stock fuel, stock i/c, stock t-25, stock O2 housing and stock downpipe/cat.

My mods:
Alex Peper Datalogger w/laptop and a boost gauge
K&N
full rre i/c pipes (including t'body elbow) w/1g bov
1g throttle body - port/matched to the 2g intake manny
NGK "7" plugs (@0.028) and wires
HMBC that spikes to ~15.5 (starts dropping immediately, probably due to elevation)
all free mods
apexi N1 catback
That should be the important stuff.

The reason I am logging is to get my runs looking nice before I throw on the 3" downpipe and EVO O2 housing, and port the ex. man. and t-25.

Thanks for any help...

 

[Blk_99gst]

Your logs look pretty normal for a mildly modded t25. I commend you for getting a logger early on in the process. I wouldn't worry about a degree of timing flux. Could be lots of factors that could cause that. But since you don't have a safc (and you don't need one yet) there's really nothing you can do to help control fuel; you are at the mercy of the ecu!

You could always try a little race gas to see how that changes things; but you would almost need to do back to back runs, one on pump and one on race gas. Because air temp, coolant temp, several variables could change where you could no longer compare the different gas runs.

I don't think you need to use the 7es's until you upgrade your turbo. You'll see some good gains from the downpipe and evo o2 housing. Although I wouldn't waste my time doing any work on the t25.