help with logs

[jim97gst]

I have a 3" O2 eliminator exhaust, cone filter, UICP and 1G BOV. I have been getting boost spikes as high as around 19-20psi. I know I should have a boost controller but I don't want one right now because it will put me into the street mod class for autocross. I'm not even competive in ESP right now. At the same time I don't want to destroy my engine. I wasn't that concerned because I read this at the DSMautocross site:

http://www.wincom.net/trog/autocross/2G_ESP.html

"Now the clincher - get at least a 2.5" diameter, turbo-back exhaust (with no cat!), and consider getting the 3" system. However, do NOT port the O2 sensor housing. With all that downstream flow, the turbine has no problem spinning, but the restictive O2 sensor housing restricts the flow through the wastegate bypass. The result? The wastegate is incapable of controlling the turbine, and you get boost creep to as high as 21 lbs of boost, for a very brief transient (the T25 is NOT capable of holding that pressure for more than a fraction of a second, and you will drop to 11 PSI or so by redline - anyone who claims differently is either lying or badly misinformed). But for that instant where you are making decent pressure, you get a nice big shot of torque - and because this is a T25, that happens down low, where you want it, exploding out of corners."

But I got a logger to see for myself. Here is a 2nd/3rd gear pull where I got spike:

time RPM speed timing TPS O2
56.95 960 30 10 8.64 0.9
58.2 2776 28 16 51.87 0.96
59.2 3756 29 3 98.23 0.98
1:00.70 4812 33 11 98.23 0.98
1:01.68 6240 53 38 25.15 0.92
1:02.66 4372 57 9 98.23 0.98
1:03.93 4848 60 11 1.96 0.76
1:05.19 3548 68 23 1.96 0

It looks like the timing is getting pulled so I probably have knock. But my O2s seem to look OK. How bad is this for my engine? Is there anything I can do for it besides a boost controller?

Thanks!

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I can see the timing dropping to 3 degrees which is horrible.

 

[jim97gst]

I can see the timing dropping to 3 degrees which is horrible.

But it goes back to 33 a second later. Does that not matter though in terms of whether I'm getting knock or not?

 

[nine5raptor]

the 3 was at tip in, before the ecu could react. still really low, but everyone has tip-in knock

edit// is that the best you can get in terms of samples/sec.?

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Ya but the tip in should never be below 10 degrees on a 2G.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Originally posted by jim97gst


But it goes back to 33 a second later. Does that not matter though in terms of whether I'm getting knock or not?

Um I may be looking at the log wrong but I see it dip to 3 then go to 11 then the next reading is at 6240 when you shifted and that's why it's at 38.

 

[jim97gst]

Um I may be looking at the log wrong but I see it dip to 3 then go to 11 then the next reading is at 6240 when you shifted and that's why it's at 38

You're right. I was reading it wrong. 33 was my speed.

the 3 was at tip in, before the ecu could react. still really low, but everyone has tip-in knock

What's tip in?

edit// is that the best you can get in terms of samples/sec.?

I don't know. I just got the thing this weekend and don't fully understand how to use it yet. I did the byte timing thing and got it to 11 S/sec, but when actually logging it sometimes goes as low as 5 S/sec. Can you get better logs by not logging so many parameters at one time or does that not matter?

Also, the damn thing keeps disconnecting from the ECU while I'm trying to log. I got the whole setup used. Is it possible I just need a new cable? I have this kind of cable.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Thanks

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Tip in is like Right when the turbo spools the ECU pulls timing but it should never drop below 10(if properly tuned) then it starts to increase timing and should be at 16-20 degrees at the top of each gear.

 

[nine5raptor]

I just got mine working today. I like the belkin cable because it locks in (my palm cable kept falling out). run both of the byte and packet tests just like it tells you to and let it stabilize. if you are running 10 s/sec. and logging 5 parameters, you should get 2 each per sec. i.e. 2 rpm points/sec, 2 timing pts/sec, 2 02 pts/sec, 2 load/sec, 2 air temp/sec. 2x5=10/sec.

 

[nine5raptor]

//off topic//
l2r, do you change your pic really often, or does yours cycle through several of them? btw I have like all of yours, make them yourself?
\\off topic\\

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Originally posted by nine5raptor
//off topic//
l2r, do you change your pic really often, or does yours cycle through several of them? btw I have like all of yours, make them yourself?
\\off topic\\

No I don't make any of them. Mostly someone will make fun of me(like the current pic) or Like my last pic(which I will go back to in a bit) someone made for me.

 

[nine5raptor]

hey i got a laugh out of it, so

 

[nine5raptor]

I was just reviewing some of my first logs. and does not look good at all.
can the 02 sensor (<2000 miles old) be used at all for getting an idea of how rich/lean I am? or is it out of its range completely?

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

It can give you some idea.

 

[nine5raptor]

timing at the top of each gear is approx. 8 ummm, ok
02 voltage runs consistantly .96-.98
could the ecu be pulling timing due to knock from too much fuel being in the system and combustion being horribly inefficient?
tip-in is around 7 and it pretty much stays there.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

96-98 is not bad but you should be at no less than 10 tiping increasing evenly throughout the gear till you get to 18-20 at redline.

 

[nine5raptor]

any thoughts on which way to try first? I think I'll turn the boost down and see what I get. Could something else be causing this? Timing when not on the go pedal runs up in the 30's

 

[jim97gst]

What is the belkin cable? Is that what I have?

I was logging other parameters as well so that's why I was getting such a low S/sec rate. I will try it again with just a few parameters.

If I lower my intake temperatures with stuff like a block off plate for the air filter and/or a mild Intercooler upgrade (supra sidemount) will that help keep my timing up during the boost spike? That stuff is legal for ESP but a boost controller is not. If not I guess I will just have to buy a boost controller. I would rather be at the bottom of the street mod class in autocross than destroy my engine. Will the supra sidemount give me a lot more lag?

 

[nine5raptor]

lowering intake temps is always a good thing for forced induction. belkin is a cheap generic brand cable (mine was $5 at circuit city). digital tuning says "The Belkin cables are known not to work". Maybe some don't, but mine works MUCH better than the palm brand cable.

 

[jim97gst]

nine5raptor- Your cable was actually just falling out of the palm? Is that the only time you lost connection? My cables are mechanically staying together OK.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

The only thing that keeps the timing up is proper fuel control. If you lower intake temps and increase the size of your IC the car will just want more fuel.

 

[nine5raptor]

jim- yes the cable was falling out with bumps or if the palm moved. not a prob. with the belkin cable

l2r and jim- i turned the boost all the way down so it hits 7 psi and creeps to 14 or so. (creep from 7 psi ???)
timing 5-12
02's still .96-.98 well im stumped. maybe a run with 17 psi or so is in order to compare with.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

What year is your car.

 

[nine5raptor]

Dang it! I keep losing my profile! it's a '95 same as yours

 

[nine5raptor]

btw thanks for all of your help on this guys.