what to tune with

[dsm1212]

alright yesterday i did my first log with the pocket logger, im really new to this so i don't know what any of the info means trying to find out but can't find a lot of info on how to read logs. anyways i am going to neeed something to tune with and i don't know what to get, i have already spent the money on the pocketlogger so i don't think that i am going to get dsmlink to much money and then also have to get a new ecu. so what do you guys recommend? i have been looking at the apexi neo but i am confused on whether or not it works with our cars, seems that some people say that it works and some say it doesn't.

also here is my log i don't really know what it means so any help will be appreciated

RPM..... Timing..... Air Temp..... Throttle..... Pos 02 1


718..... ..12..... 64*..... 4%..... .40v 1%
1238..... 20..... 66*..... 9%..... .92v 0%
1550..... 23..... 66...... 12%..... .80v -5%
1683..... 22..... 68...... 17%...... .04v 0%
2085..... 18..... 68...... 27%...... .16v 7%
2207..... 5....... 69...... 95%...... .96v 0%
3101..... 6........69...... 95......... .98v 0%
4027..... 10..... 69...... 95......... 1.00v 0
4917..... 12..... 69...... 95......... 1.00v 0
5808..... 18..... 70...... 95......... 1.02v 0
6523..... 22..... 70......95.......... 1.00v 0
5102..... 12..... 68..... 95.......... .96v 0
4859..... 12..... 68..... 95.......... .98v 0
5191..... 14..... 68..... 95......... .96v 0
5529..... 15..... 68..... 95.......... .98v 0
5836..... 18..... 68..... 95.......... .88v 0
6102..... 20..... 68..... 95.......... .70v 0
6367..... 22..... 66..... 95.......... .46v 0
6586..... 22..... 66..... 95.......... .34v 0
4711...... 34..... 66.... 0........... .12v 0

 

[tbonitz301]

The afc neo does work with our cars just fine. Could you do a 3rd gear pull from 2k rpm to redline?That will tell us more.The DSM ECU Timing Curve Check out jeff's site it's a wealth of info

 

[havoc742]

You don't have to get a new ECU with the DSMLink. You just have to send yours in to get socketed for $30 more.

 

[No_Skillz]

You don't have to get a new ECU with the DSMLink. You just have to send yours in to get socketed for $30 more.

He needs an eprom.

Is the pull WOT? A few things bother me if it is... the fact that your throttle position doesn't read 100% and your rpms are all over the place. More info about the conditions of your pull would help.

 

[dsm1212]

its an automatic so its hard to do just a third gear pull this pull is a second gear wot into third gear wot, i noticed the throttle was not 100 but only 95 how do i change this? i can try and do just a third gear but im not sure how it will turn out. but that is why my rpms go back down is because it was shifting into third.

 

[mikelv]

That log looks like a mess.....before you post again here's a bit of advice....

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...st-logs-so-people-can-actually-read-them.html

See if you can get a clean log posted, and that'll attract some "wiser" attention. No offense to anyone who posted by the way!


But the stage your at you'll be fine. Just keep the stock boost levels until you get your AFC. If you can afford DSMLink, and plan on building the car and sticking with it, then go for it. I hope that will answer your question as far as EMS's. DSMLink IMO is by far the easiest and most dependable interface. Good Luck!!!

 

[No_Skillz]

its an automatic so its hard to do just a third gear pull this pull is a second gear wot into third gear wot, i noticed the throttle was not 100 but only 95 how do i change this? i can try and do just a third gear but im not sure how it will turn out. but that is why my rpms go back down is because it was shifting into third.

Adjust your throttle cable via the two bolts and metal plate towards the rear of your intake manifold. Keep an eye on your logger while you are adjusting to ensure that it is 0% when off the pedal and 100% when the pedal is all the way down.

 

[dsm1212]

alright i will adjust that and try another log and make it easier to read. any ideas on the best way to do a log for an automatic

 

[mikelv]

alright i will adjust that and try another log and make it easier to read. any ideas on the best way to do a log for an automatic

You can still do a 3rd Gear pull easily.

Just turn off the overdrive and put it in second, then start to take off, shift smoothly into Drive. When you shift into drive from 2nd with the overdrive off, that'll be third gear. It won't shift into fourth gear until you put the overdrive back on.

Just make a gentle shift from 2nd to D, and make the RPM shift point shift you into 3rd at around 2500rpm....then from there go WOT at 3000rpm to redline and then put her in N, or turn the OD back on.

IMO I would go to N, because of the delay in shifting with an automatic you might go beyond redine shifting into 4th.

 

[white 90 gsx]

A E M Thats What I Use!

 

[dsm1212]

aem what? is that the stand alone system thats like $1000

 

[spyderturbo007]

Be careful with the Neo. Older models have been shown to output erratic airflow corrections to the ECU causing major problems. You need to have a Karmen compatibility on the back of the Neo and the last five digits of the serial number need to be above 13800 for it to work properly.

I would stick with a SAFC-II as opposed to the Neo, or DSMLink if that's the way you want to go. I guess it all depends on your finances.

Also, you really don't "need" a SAFC at this point anyway, since you're still on the stock injectors. You might be able to lean things out a little bit and pick up a little more power, but you should get injectors, a fuel pump and the SAFC at the same time. Granted, I picked up the SAFC first and had it installed when the car was still stock, but I never made any corrections until I picked up the injectors.

 

[dnhieu]

that log is looking all messed up. the way the rpms go down but throttle position stays the same makes it appear that you misplaced some of the rpms when you posted the log. everyone here is going to say get DSMLINK including myself. doesnt really sound like your ready for it if your going to tune your car yourself. to a bunch of reading about tuning. this stuff will scramble your brain bad and one day it will just HIT you and you will somewhat have a grasp of it. i would say for now (as much as i would hate to tell you this) go with a safc I or safc II untill your ready for the link. you will eventually want to go that direction to get more out of your car...

all of this saying if you plan on tuning your car yourself. if you plan on dropping the dollars on my dyno time go with the link or AEM ems. obviously money is a factor in your decision...

 

[dsm1212]

Be careful with the Neo. Older models have been shown to output erratic airflow corrections to the ECU causing major problems. You need to have a Karmen compatibility on the back of the Neo and the last five digits of the serial number need to be above 13800 for it to work properly.

I would stick with a SAFC-II as opposed to the Neo, or DSMLink if that's the way you want to go. I guess it all depends on your finances.

Also, you really don't "need" a SAFC at this point anyway, since you're still on the stock injectors. You might be able to lean things out a little bit and pick up a little more power, but you should get injectors, a fuel pump and the SAFC at the same time. Granted, I picked up the SAFC first and had it installed when the car was still stock, but I never made any corrections until I picked up the injectors.

well i have the turbo and injectors intercooler fuel pump and all that good stuff in my room i just didn't want to put any thing on until i had something to tune with so thats the last thing on my list.

and yes i do want to learn to tune it myself and i have been reading a ton its just pretty confusing especially timing i don't really understand. i am hoping it will just hit me soon. haha. and from my pocketlogger can i tell how rich i am running are the 02 values acurrate? what do they mean as far as lean and rich i don't understand what a .92v is so i think for now i will go with the safc II.

 

[dsm1212]

oh and the log is like that because its an automatic so i couldn't really get a good 3rd gear pull so i went from second and then it shifts into third so thats why the throttle stays the same

 

[spyderturbo007]

You can't tell AFR by the narrowband O2 sensor since it's not accurate enough. Pick up a SAFC, install the rest of your parts and we can get you all fixed up. I can walk you through the tuning over the internet. It's not really that hard once you start getting your hands dirty.

You don't seem to be getting very many samples / second on the logger. Are you running v1 or v2 of the PocketLogger software? Have you run the byte timing tests?

 

[dsm1212]

i just checked and its version 1. how do i get 2? and i did the test once but i can't remeber how i got to that screen now.

 

[dsm1212]

nevermind its version 2. and when i do the test the most samples i can get per second was 19 and its mostly dipping up and down from 11-19

 

[spyderturbo007]

***disclaimer i am by no means an expert , ive barely started this "tuning" stuff myself so i might be completely wrong but this what my research shows needs to be done**

Please see "Before You Reply Rule #3" since you aren't even close. Not even by a long shot.

His car is an automatic, so just like with a manual, everytime you shift gears your timing will drop. After the initial drop, the timing will begin to climb again until it peaks at redline. His logs look fine, which is to be expected since he's still on the stock maps with no alterations.

 

[dsm1212]

yes everything is stock i am running rich tho because my stock bov leaks at 10 psi hopefully i will have the new one on tomorrow

 

[dsm1212]

so what is timing supposed to do? looks like it is supposed to get lower as my rpms rise. so is low timing good? or is good timing judged by how steady and evenly it goes down. or is timing supposed to stay above a certain degree

 

[spyderturbo007]

As you go WOT and begin to reach full boost, you'll see timing drop. Typically, depending on airflow, IAT, Coolant Temp, etc, you should see about 6 - 8 degrees. From there, as rpm's increase, the timing will begin to climb and reach it's peak value at redline.

Without knowing your airflow numbers, I can't tell you what the ECU's target timing was during that run. If you hit the ECU's maximum airflow map at 2.1g/rev, the timing is capped at 16 degrees.

I did a huge writeup somewhere on how everything works. Let me see if I can find it for you.

 

[dsm1212]

alright thanks so next time i do a log what parameters should i log?

 

[spyderturbo007]

nevermind its version 2. and when i do the test the most samples i can get per second was 19 and its mostly dipping up and down from 11-19

Go to the Byte Timing Setup screen after you initiate a connection with the ECU. Watch the bottom of the screen where it says "Error Count". After 60 seconds, what is that value? Typically, you'll only see a swing of 1 or 2 samples / second so a swing of 8 makes me think you are getting a bunch of errors.

You might have to manually bump up both the inter-byte delay and the inter-packet delay a couple notches. Once you get that straightened out, make a pull staying in 3rd gear the best you can, logging only airflow, rpm, front O2 and timing. Then post up the log.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Here you go, this will give you something to chew on for awhile.