Thinking of a 75shot with my 16g/e85 setup

JayRolla · 08-12-2008, 08:42 AM

Well Im already bored of this 16g and want a little more. I was thinking of a new turbo but I love the fast spool up. I dont have a raised rev limiter and dont want to fall out of boost when Im switching gears.

So I have decided with a 75shot of some nitrous. But I am a complete newb when using stuff. What would be the safest and most efficient kit to buy? When tuning do I just make sure the afr is fine and thats it?

I was talking with a guy that had a stock 14b with a 100 shot and the car was a monstor. I think I would be happier gaining 100hp on they setup I have now instead of a new turbo.

1992awdlaser · 08-12-2008, 08:56 AM

A regular wet kit or direct port kit will do. Direct port will be better because you know each cylinder is getting the same amount of nitrous as the others.

When you first start to spray you will need to turn the boost down. I would just put a hose with no boost controller to the wastegate to begin with. When you spray the boost will spike, especially that turbo. Also pull timing. If you don't have something like dsmlink then turn the cas a little to retard timing. You shouldn't have to mess with anything air/fuel wise that much with a wet kit. After you know the air/fuel is good you can throw a boost controller on it. Get to the boost you want then try to bring the timing back to 5*. If you are using pump you might not be able to bring the timing all the way back to 5* due to knock.

I would recommend a pressure controlled bottle heater also. This way you won't lose bottle pressure towards the end of a run and end up running to rich.

Any more questions?

Black_Bullet · 08-12-2008, 09:52 AM

As far as what you said about the boost falling, you dont have a chipped ecu with NLTS? If not maybe you should update your tuning equipment before going nitrous so you can adjust your timing maps also and better the tune, Nitrous is going to add a lot of cylinder pressure on top of all that boost you run. A 100shot sounds like a good amount though. I dont blame you for sticking it out with the 16g, great turbo. Im looking into the Borg Warner turbos myself though!

JayRolla · 08-12-2008, 11:44 AM

I was thinking of running 22-25psi with the turbo and a 75 shot on top of that with the setup I have now. Timing never goes above 22* at peak. I think I would be happier with some spray!! Thanks for the answers.

Do you think the e85 and 22* with the 75shot be ok?

Burnett03 · 08-12-2008, 11:49 AM

Does this motor have a built bottom end? A 75shot on a turbo car will act differently than a n/a car. You will be looking at near 100hp gain with a 75 shot. Also remember since you are on e-85 you need to up your fuel jet size. Don't use what they say for a 75 shot, go bigger.

1992awdlaser · 08-12-2008, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRolla

Do you think the e85 and 22* with the 75shot be ok?

I would back timing down a few degrees at first just to be safe. It will most likely not knock because of the E85. But you have to think about cylinder pressures from the high timing, high boost, and adding the spray.

selmerguy · 08-12-2008, 12:19 PM

I run a zex 55 shot on my 50 trim. I love it. I am on a stock block and I have DSMAP to tune. You can really tell the difference when you spray. It hauls a$$.

Sam

turbotalon1g · 08-12-2008, 03:18 PM

I am looking at doing the same thing.
Glad someone else is out there thinking along the same lines.

JayRolla · 08-12-2008, 05:08 PM

Well I have the CAS at pretty much 0* right now already due to running 1200cc injectors and just a maf-t to compensate. So I cant really pull anymore timing out of the tune. Maybe I should look into getting a chipped ecu with a set timing of 17*. That may be a little safer.

TSIMonsteR · 08-12-2008, 05:39 PM

Dude, you need dsmlink.

Black_Bullet · 08-12-2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRolla

Well I have the CAS at pretty much 0* right now already due to running 1200cc injectors and just a maf-t to compensate. So I cant really pull anymore timing out of the tune. Maybe I should look into getting a chipped ecu with a set timing of 17*. That may be a little safer.

Jason, if you truely dont think your going to get dsmlink, you should look into burning your own chips whenever you want like I do which is even better than having some set chip made that you may want to edit 10 times before settling on a tune. I run the evilscribe tuning program with exceptional control over AFR and timing ( adjusting timing/afr by Gm/rev load rows), and if you get good enough with it you will be able to do almost all the features that Dsmlink does for half the price.

The only thing difficult about it is learning the HEX codes at first, but you can just get all that info off the interenet for what does what. Plus you can get a Ostrich and tune on the fly with laptop. The only reason for me to get dsmlink at this point would be for waiting for the new version, but I dont even need it.
Eprom editing is a often overlooked but decent way to go; and sure beats SAFC in everyway.

Youd need a socketed eprom ecu either way, then youll just need to purchase the chip burner
I think Moates.net still carries them, williem eprom editor is what I have, I have the old version. Was only like 80bucks, Idk about now. Then you just download the tuning program ( Tunerpro, Evilscribe.) or have someone who already has it send it to you thru the net or by cd or something, and order some reburnable Eprom chips ( AT29C256 ) theres a site you can get 12 reburnable chips for 30 bucks... Or if your not comfortable doing it yourself I can burn you some chips, but Im not trying to take anything from keydiver, Jeff can reburn your chips for you for 20 bucks after the initial 150 buck chip tune. If you ever want more info on that just PM me. Just trying to help

turbotalon1g · 08-12-2008, 06:06 PM

I am running on dsmlink.

Burnett03 · 08-12-2008, 11:42 PM

I personally think you need to invest in dsmlink before you add nitrous.. Alot of power can be made with link and you will like that 16g again.. If not then you can add nitrous to it later and have link control it.

JayRolla · 08-13-2008, 07:25 AM

I still dont think I would make anymore power if I had link. Timing is right where I want it and I hold 11.1 afr all the way to redline. Talked to a few guys and they think I would be just fine with a 75 shot at 22* timing on e85.

selmerguy · 08-13-2008, 07:44 AM

I think you should look at a tuning tool aswell. Bottom line is you need the ability to control FUEL & TIMING. If for nothing more than the ability to change your tune for different weather conditions. I personally like DSMAP better. It is getting very user friendly and it gets rid of the MAF all togeather. I have nothing aginst DSMLINK as it is a solid program but MAF tuning sucks. A SD setup will be far more consistant and give you the benifits of part throttle responce that the MAF lacks. Running 2 power adders on a stock ECU with a MAFT will be very interesting.

Sam

TSIMonsteR · 08-13-2008, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRolla

I still dont think I would make anymore power if I had link. Timing is right where I want it and I hold 11.1 afr all the way to redline. Talked to a few guys and they think I would be just fine with a 75 shot at 22* timing on e85.

Its not about making more power, its about more efficient control. You already have an eprom ECU, it just doesn't make any since to not get a better form of tuning control.

JayRolla · 08-13-2008, 08:38 AM

It does when its $600. Plus I dont have the eprom I would have to buy one. I can get a nitrous kit for under $800 and make a lot more power than if I had link. Im trying to make 500whp the cheapest way possible.

I think I may do it because people said I couldnt run e85 with just a maf-t and Im doing it just fine. Maybe Ill do it to prove everyone wrong. I remember the day when link was not around and greddy was the best tuning tool. Lots of power was made just on safc's and emanage.

h8r · 08-13-2008, 09:11 AM

Nitrous should be an awesome addition if the tuning is under control. Also, tirespin will be an instant problem on the hose if it ever shows its self now. It will add more then 75 as stated, and will prob. double that in TQ. The car would make more power under the curve with nitrous then a turbo upgrade. If anyone doubts that, check out the 10 sec. T-25 car! : )

JayRolla · 08-13-2008, 09:53 AM

Well Im estimating my power around 400whp. From what Ive been told a 75 shot would give me 100-125whp. That on top of what power I'm making now would be way more than enough with my rebuilt OEM 6 bolt.

90laserRSfwd · 08-13-2008, 10:08 AM

Did you decide to spray for sure yet?

JayRolla · 08-13-2008, 10:35 AM

No not yet, I just made this post today and have been thinking about it for about a month now. Jack said the motor would love it and be just fine with the e85 in the tank. I just want other peoples thoughts.

DSMsOwnYourV8 · 08-13-2008, 10:36 AM

Damnitt Jayrolla, just when I think my car is as fast as the dude's from down the street, you decide to go with a 75 shot. Screw your car and it's big penis.

1992awdlaser · 08-13-2008, 10:45 AM

I will be running a 75 shot on top of my 50 trim when I get some extra money. As long as you are safe there will be no problems. I plan on running about 22psi with the 75 shot. I am on the stock block also.

JayRolla · 08-13-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSMsOwnYourV8

Damnitt Jayrolla, just when I think my car is as fast as the dude's from down the street, you decide to go with a 75 shot. Screw your car and it's big penis.

LMAO, well your car will be faster than my bros since its in the back getting the tranny pulled. He broke his clutch fork just like I did about two months back. MAKE SURE TO REPLACE CLUTCH FORK WHEN ADDING A AFTERMARKET CLUTCH!!!

Im asking this because I want to be safe. I think the 22* timing may be a little too much with the nitrous. Jack doesnt think so, when I asked him he got excited and said that car would love it!!!

Black_Bullet · 08-13-2008, 11:54 AM

Jason, I think you will be fine with a 100 shot to be honest. I wouldnt run it at 30plus psi though... Your timing now seems fine with spray and about 25psi on the 16g as long as your not knocking.

Your peak timing is probably ideal but how aggressive is the timing around torque peak and thru the rest of the curve? That could be were you have to worry about, dependin how early you plan to have the nitrous activate....

For starters I think you should go and dyno your car and also take it to the track to see were its at now before making any drastic decisions on were to go next with your setup.

Like everyone else Istill highly recommend that you step up your tuning methods to link or reburnable eprom chips like I mentioned earlier, or even dsmap. Its worth it, safc is so yesteryear and leaves soo much on the table, even more than you think, not to mention all the numerous features you dont have now like 2step antilag and/or NLTS for example.Theres other tricks to going fast than just adjusting timing!

JayRolla · 08-13-2008, 07:47 PM

Well talked to the woman about getting some juice and she said I would kill myself and doesnt want me to do it. Talked her into getting link though. I think I might as well do it. Will take me a little to convince her when I can buy it but I guess that will be my next route.