259 hp / 239 tq on 23 psi v-trim. Wait...what?

iiiwildfireiii · 05-10-2008, 04:47 PM

It happens time and time again. We all hear about it. Stories of frustration, disappointment, and pain. Yes my fellow motorheads, its that time once again. Another of us has been struck with a major feeling of failure and have been left wanting with a poor first dyno run.

259.9 hp and 239.9 ftlb tq. ....wait for it.... on 23 psi on a T04b V-trim.

And so, here I am, begging my friends for advice and beseeching you for assistance. With my current mods, I should have had way more horsepower on the dyno than what I put down. Quick down and dirty mod list:

T04B V-trim
Comp 100 cams
DSMLink V2.5
650cc injectors
FMIC
Tubular o2 dump
2.5" Exhaust with no cat

Air Fuel Ratio was right at 11.7-11.9 for the entire run. Link log will be posted later today (I'm at work and don't have access to it ATM). Granted this IS on an AUTO car...but still.

Really, all I'm looking for is some ideas about what to do and where to go from here. My goal is 330 hp / 300 tq.

Thanks guys!

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...27042942_0.jpg

nikkeebabee · 05-10-2008, 05:00 PM

Auto cars don't usually have big dyno numbers take it to the track and see what it does...

SonySlave · 05-10-2008, 05:24 PM

I LOVE THAT AFR CURVE!!!

What kind of gas? 11.7-11.9 may be just a hair lean for 91-93 pump gas. How much timing were you getting during the run? Low timing can greatly reduce power numbers. Your power curve should be pretty smooth, but yours is jagged and uneven. I'm guessing that you may be knocking, causing drops in timing, either due to too much timing, or possibly a little too lean for the gas you are using.

More info needed and the DSMLink log if you have one would be awesome!

Artago · 05-10-2008, 05:38 PM

I got a V-Trim. The thing leaked air like a MOFO. Read this: 50 trim owners: check your compressor housing!!

Cheers and good luck,

Tom

iiiwildfireiii · 05-10-2008, 05:56 PM

Thanks for the help guys. Here's the logs. I'm on 93 pump gas for all 3 runs. 23-ish PSI.

EmeryatSTM · 05-10-2008, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiiwildfireiii

It happens time and time again. We all hear about it. Stories of frustration, disappointment, and pain. Yes my fellow motorheads, its that time once again. Another of us has been struck with a major feeling of failure and have been left wanting with a poor first dyno run.

259.9 hp and 239.9 ftlb tq. ....wait for it.... on 23 psi on a T04b V-trim.

And so, here I am, begging my friends for advice and beseeching you for assistance. With my current mods, I should have had way more horsepower on the dyno than what I put down. Quick down and dirty mod list:

T04B V-trim
Comp 100 cams
DSMLink V2.5
650cc injectors
FMIC
Tubular o2 dump
2.5" Exhaust with no cat

Air Fuel Ratio was right at 11.7-11.9 for the entire run. Link log will be posted later today (I'm at work and don't have access to it ATM). Granted this IS on an AUTO car...but still.

Really, all I'm looking for is some ideas about what to do and where to go from here. My goal is 330 hp / 300 tq.

Thanks guys!

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...27042942_0.jpg

Just curiouse, What FMIC are you using? Also what did your maf read (Hz)? I cant open link from my desktop....

-Em

iiiwildfireiii · 05-10-2008, 06:35 PM

On this run, I was using an old Johnny Race Car mid-sized (don't know exact dimensions) side to side FMIC. Yeah it was reading hz. Around 2100 hz I believe. Max sustained air flow was 36.5 lb/min spiking to 37 lb/min on occasion.

1glaserturbo · 05-10-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiiwildfireiii

On this run, I was using an old Johnny Race Car mid-sized (don't know exact dimensions) side to side FMIC. Yeah it was reading hz. Around 2100 hz I believe. Max sustained air flow was 36.5 lb/min spiking to 37 lb/min on occasion.

37lbs/min is horrible for something like that. My big 16g is pushing ~42lbs/min at 26lbs, something is obviously wrong!

iiiwildfireiii · 05-10-2008, 07:45 PM

I know! That's what I'm thinking...but what on earth? We did a boost leak check right before dyno time and it was solid. I don't have an upgraded exhaust manifold...but it shouldn't hurt me that much should it?? I don't have a cat so flow down a 2.5" exhaust isn't restrictive.

My 650 cc injectors hit 90% IDC too. My AFR seemed solid with no blips. Front o2 showed .94 to .96 volts, but I still had knock above 6000rpm. Timing I know got pulled for the high coolant temps. I...just don't know what's going on.

Rob10_99 · 05-10-2008, 07:48 PM

Have you done a compression check yet? or leakdown?
boost leak +1

turbosax2 · 05-10-2008, 08:06 PM

First off, I'm new to tuning so I'll try my best and someone please correct me if I'm wrong about something.

1. You have a lot of knock from 5500 up. You need to add more fuel in to get your afr richer and to take care of that knock. Your timing is wack so that needs to be addressed too.

2. Get those coolant temps down.

3. Since you say you're running 23 psi, your BoostEst should read about 23 psi between 5000-5500 rpm. Since it only reads about 17 psi, that means you need to calibrate your mas better using the airflow sliders.
http://jeffgst.com/gmafcalibration1.html

4. You can play with the TPS settings to get your ThrotPos all the way to 100% (this shouldn't really make a difference anyway though).
dsmlinktpsadjustment [ECMTuning - wiki]

5. Time to start thinking about upgrading those injectors. 90% idc is pushing them a little far for comfort, and will really not be enough fuel once you get your tune dialed in.

JayRolla · 05-10-2008, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbosax2

First off, I'm new to tuning so I'll try my best and someone please correct me if I'm wrong about something.

1. You have a lot of knock from 5500 up. You need to add more fuel in to get your afr richer and to take care of that knock. Your timing is wack so that needs to be addressed too.

2. Get those coolant temps down.

3. Since you say you're running 23 psi, your BoostEst should read about 23 psi between 5000-5500 rpm. Since it only reads about 17 psi, that means you need to calibrate your mas better using the airflow sliders.
http://jeffgst.com/gmafcalibration1.html

4. You can play with the TPS settings to get your ThrotPos all the way to 100% (this shouldn't really make a difference anyway though).
dsmlinktpsadjustment [ECMTuning - wiki]

5. Time to start thinking about upgrading those injectors. 90% idc is pushing them a little far for comfort, and will really not be enough fuel once you get your tune dialed in.

I also cant see the log but if there is a lot of knock like this guy said that could be your issue. What is the max timing and what knock retard at? I would retune to around a 10.9 afr with you setup.

iiiwildfireiii · 05-10-2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRolla

I also cant see the log but if there is a lot of knock like this guy said that could be your issue. What is the max timing and what knock retard at? I would retune to around a 10.9 afr with you setup.

Couldn't tell you right now as I'm at work. I'd had my laptop in the car (luckily) so I was able to post the logs really quick, but now the battery is dead. I DO remember that my timing dipped LOW...like all the way down to 4* I believe (don't quote me on it). I'm going to go back and try and retune it a bit. Throw a lot more fuel up top from 5.5k and up. I think there was over 7 counts of knock at 6.5k so there's definitely something off. Bad coolant temps didn't help...but it was my 3rd run and they only had a huge fan and it didn't have very much force to it so that didn't help my cooling situation any.

I'm also going to go ahead and get an exhaust manifold of some sort, probably an Evo III and port it it a bit. Larger injectors might be in the future as well. I'm not sure what to think about a Big 16g outflowing my V-trim....so maybe a new turbo also. Manual swap is going to be a must I believe.

Any other ideas?

JayRolla · 05-11-2008, 07:53 AM

Those v trims dont push much air, they are about the same as a 16g.

tenn-gsx · 05-11-2008, 08:16 AM

Im assuming your using the stock maf. If so, and since your showing low boost est, You need to check for a leak between the maf and turbo inlet. Your maf really has no reason to be that far off other than a pre turbo leak or a bad maf unless you screwed with the airflow settings.

xi Talon ix · 05-11-2008, 08:17 AM

om pretty new to the whole tuning part of dsm's but i would like to learn about it. i have DSMlink on my desktop and was looking at your log. why does it say that you made 440 hp and 393 fl/lbs. i also noticed that it was only 96% throttle position.

JayRolla · 05-11-2008, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xi Talon ix

om pretty new to the whole tuning part of dsm's but i would like to learn about it. i have DSMlink on my desktop and was looking at your log. why does it say that you made 440 hp and 393 fl/lbs. i also noticed that it was only 96% throttle position.

Its just an estimated dyno. Its good for seeing if you lost or gained power but not for real world dyno numbers. Also its normal for the tps not to read 100% so that is fine.

iiiwildfireiii · 05-11-2008, 11:18 AM

About the same as a 16g?? I find that hard to believe. I've seen mine side by side with a 16g and there is a huge difference in size. Most others had made *way* more horsepower at similar boost levels than I did with this turbo and they were flowing similar or more air. I'm wondering if its the turbo itself.... I wouldn't mind grabbing / borrowing an Big 16g and slapping it on to test it out juuuuust to see what the flow difference is. Going full 50 or 57 trim is also a possibility.

Also, does anyone know what 650 cc's are good for flow wise? Should I be hitting 90% IDC at 35 lb/min?

DSMSpyder99 · 05-11-2008, 11:52 AM

Just to throw it out there i dynoed at 265whp and 262lbs on my E16G before I had my cams, ported TB, and gutted cat. This was on 91 octane, no tune, and 19PSI...from what i have heard a V-trim doesn't flow that well. However, you should be putting down at least 300WHP.

Check you turbo for any chipped blades and shaft play thats my suggestion.