Evo 3 16g GT with Evo Injectors (560cc)

cool_g_83 · 11-21-2006, 11:32 AM

Hello, I am in the process of upgrading my fuel system for the evo 3 16g GT. I have read many articles with conflicting views upon whether to get 550cc or 650cc injectors. Some say that the 550cc will not max out the evo 16g and that tuning will be hard for 650cc (on safc2 which is what I plan on tuning with). I want to hear from people who have experience using the evo 560cc injectors with an evo 3 16g (GT or not) turbo, or anyone who uses/has used these injectors, with or without the S-AFC2.

I have also read that these injectors flow in the range of 580cc-590cc, so for this setup, these seem to be an obvious choice.

To set this up so I get direct answers, here are a few things to note:

I am running a rewired 190 lph fp.
I am running the XS FMIC.
I am going to run an S-AFC2 for tuning.
I will not upgrade to DSMlink.
I am not going to get a bigger turbo after (at least for a very, very long time, at which point I won't mind re-buying parts).
I want to run low 20s psi (20-25).
Horsepower goal ~290-310
This is my daily driver, so I want reliability and ease of tuning. So please adhere to these guide lines.

Now for the questions:
Will the 560cc evo injectors be enough for this?
How hard will it be to tune these?
Any advice/information on anything not listed above?
Is this achievable on this setup?

My end goal is a quick, reliable street car that is a decent step up over the t-25. It will rarely go to the track/autocross and will rarely be driven hard for extended periods of time. If any clarification is needed, just ask! Thank you for your time and input.

spyderturbo007 · 11-21-2006, 11:47 AM

Here you go:

Injectors and Fuel Pumps

I would go with 650's and a rewired 190lph if I were you. I have no problems tuning them with the SAFC-II.

EDIT --> Sorry, I see that you already have a rewired 190.

I'll just leave that there for possible searches down the line.

cool_g_83 · 11-21-2006, 11:59 AM

Thank you for the great link. I just wanted to shake out all the bugs in my system before I made an injector purchase. Great info! Any other comments/input?

95GSXracer · 11-22-2006, 09:56 AM

The EVO8 turbo flows the exact same amount as the EVO3 turbo, 42-43 lbs/min. The stock EVO injectors, which act more like 580s, are enough for this turbo. But, IDCs will be right at 100% IDC if you push it on pump. I consistently saw mid 90s on race gas with the turbo completely maxed out.

The 190 MUST be rewired to supply enough fuel for these turbos. Even when it is, there is very little headroom available, and I would keep an eye on the wideband. I ran this way for about a year however, with no issues.

Edit> If you are not going DSMlink, and are doing an AFC or similar piggyback setup, the EVO injectors are the way to go. Cutting it close, but they'll cause less timing ####ery than 650s will, which is always a good thing.

cool_g_83 · 11-22-2006, 10:10 AM

But they are a better option than 550cc, right? The reason I asked is because after searching for the right injector size, some 550cc users say they were enough some say they weren't. The 650cc users said they were enough, but may be difficult to tune. So I figured 580cc would be a good middle ground, plus evo injectors can be had for much cheaper

I just want some injectors that will allow this turbo to do what it does best

95GSXracer · 11-22-2006, 10:25 AM

550s are absolutely not enough for the EVO 16g maxed out. You can expect to see 105-110% IDC being commaned by the ECU in this situation, depending on fuel type and target AFR. It's rare that you can find an injector size that gives you ~98-99% IDCs on a given turbo, and this is key to doing well with a piggy back setup.

cool_g_83 · 11-22-2006, 10:56 AM

So then it sounds like the evo injectors are the way to go for me. Anyone have any personal experience with the evo injectors and the evo 3 16g turbo? Thanks, rep points for you!

Edit> Nevermind, there is no scale icon to click

RockSolidGST · 11-22-2006, 02:38 PM

Im running an evo3 , ported with EVO8 injectors at 20psi with all supporting fuel mods AFRP , and a walb. 255, I dont have link yet so i cant tell you what the duty cycles are at , But car runs 11.2 AFR all the way up to 7k , Pulls nice and hard , was pretty easy to tune i did it myself

298whp/296ftlbs , Good luck with ## setup let me know how you make out , or if you have any other questions

Andy

DJ23GSX · 11-25-2006, 07:11 PM

I have 560's and a small 16g with a rewired 255 and afpr @ 38psi base fp with a mkiv i/c and i am seeing over 110% duty cycles @ 20psi around 6k rpms and start to knock. I am not 100% sure its my injectors though because i had it tuned for 20psi for a few months and never saw duty cycles over 93%. The 560's might be enough but I would go with the 650's personally.

95GSXracer · 11-26-2006, 05:29 AM

It's possible to go well over 100% if you are running pig rich.

It's also important to note that the 38 psi base pressure on the 1Gs makes the injectors smaller, which is something I probably don't mention often enough.

Running some quick numbers for 580s (what the EVO injectors actually act like), pump gas, target AFR of 11:1, and a maxed out EVO 16g at 42 lbs/min, I get 98% for 42 psi base and 105% IDC for 38 psi base. To get to 110% IDC however you'd still have to be shooting for 10.5-10.6:1 AFR. So it is entirely possible to end up at 110% IDC. If it was my car I'd consider going to 43 psi base, and running a more typical 11:1. Just the base change will get you down to 102% IDC however, which will really put you at around 10.8:1. Going to 650s is going to be adding a lot more timing ####ery that I personally try to avoid for obvious reasons.

DJ23GSX · 11-26-2006, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95GSXracer

It's possible to go well over 100% if you are running pig rich.

It's also important to note that the 38 psi base pressure on the 1Gs makes the injectors smaller, which is something I probably don't mention often enough.

Running some quick numbers for 580s (what the EVO injectors actually act like), pump gas, target AFR of 11:1, and a maxed out EVO 16g at 42 lbs/min, I get 98% for 42 psi base and 105% IDC for 38 psi base. To get to 110% IDC however you'd still have to be shooting for 10.5-10.6:1 AFR. So it is entirely possible to end up at 110% IDC. If it was my car I'd consider going to 43 psi base, and running a more typical 11:1. Just the base change will get you down to 102% IDC however, which will really put you at around 10.8:1. Going to 650s is going to be adding a lot more timing ####ery that I personally try to avoid for obvious reasons.

I've tried 42psi base and 45psi base fp and still saw over 100% idc's with knock and if i lean out the safc to bring down my idc's i get more knock. I forgot to mention that i use a 2g maf. I am thinking i might have a fp issue under high boost. I am able to run 14psi and lean the safc out a ton and see well under 90% idc's without any knock. Like i said before i don't think its an issue maxing out my injectors because i was running them at 20psi tuned with 0 knock and was seeing idc's around 90-93%. I know my ecu has a leaky cap but could that be causing my wacky idc readings? My fuel trims are also screwy even after i changed my o2 sensor last summer.

scottsee · 11-26-2006, 09:40 AM

I love my 550cc/ev316 setup. 12.4@111

I inject an M7/600cc nozzle right before the TB, so that really helps lower IDC. I just looked at my log, and flowing 35lb/min at 21psi I'm at 77% IDC

. It would be even less if I were using 100% meth.

snowboard1 · 02-04-2007, 06:42 PM

I got evo 8 fuel injectors and an evo 3 turbo. Works very well, I have a 2gmas so I just needed very little tunning. Im running 20psi now with no knock.

perrynajarian · 05-09-2008, 01:29 AM

tuning help please
97 eclipse gst, evo3 big 16g, 680cc pte injectors, keydiver stage3 ecu with modded eprom chip, 1g blowoff valve with crushed top mod, ( i used a vacuum pump and gauge and set it to open at 20 inches of vacuum) large cold air intake, large front mount cooler with short pipe route, aem wide band uego, safc2, rewired stock fuel pump, full 3" turbo back exhaust system with 3" highflow cat, . I have boost set at 20 psi, with all that said, do i need to change the stock fuel pump? i bought a 255lph and installed it before the large injectors but it was noisy and i didnt notice a difference, so i put the stock pump back in, someone told me to go with the 190lph, what do you tuners think? thanks for any advise you might have..