Tuning by wideband VS timing/knock...is wideband better, or just easier?

[Rice Over Wheat]

Simple question I've been looking for the answer to. The way I figure it, if you tune by knock/timing to the maximum boost you can push without knock and high timing, can it be assumed you are at a favorable a/f ratio without actually knowing what it is?

I'm trying to decide whether wideband is worth the investment for a better tune, because $350 seems quite high just for ease of use. I'm wondering if I really need wideband for tuning if I have a logger. Seems to me the wideband just cuts out a lot of the guesswork.

My final mods will be 50 trim, 272/272 cams, and stage 3 keydiver. I'd prefer not to go over $2000.

[90AWDTalon]

Originally Posted by Rice Over Wheat

Simple question I've been looking for the answer to. The way I figure it, if you tune by knock/timing to the maximum boost you can push without knock and high timing, can it be assumed you are at a favorable a/f ratio without actually knowing what it is?

I thought that too, until I got a wideband.

[selmerguy]

I had a wideband before I had a logger. And you can not tune these cars with just a wideband. I have been at a good AFR and still seen knock, witch pulls timing and makes the car slower. I just got mmcd 1.8g and I am going to hook up my wideband (in the cold) in a few mins to see how the two work togeather. If you can get a wideband do it. It makes tuning much easier. But for cars equipt with a knock sensor you need to see that and the timing curve too. The IDC helps alot as well.

[FORMONTOYA]

Both.......

A wide band is for the air/fuel mixture and timing/knock is.....well, timing. As stated, you can have a nice A/F but still get knock.

It's really nice to be able to tune off both.........ie: DSMLink with a WB and a 3Bar MAP combined.

[Rice Over Wheat]

Thanks for all the input.

A wide band is for the air/fuel mixture and timing/knock is.....well, timing. As stated, you can have a nice A/F but still get knock.

See, that's why I assumed if you were to do one or the other, it'd be best to tune off timing/knock than just wideband. At least with timing/knock you can eliminate the knock which is what you ultimately are trying to avoid. A/F alone and you still can get knock like you said.

Both is definately better, I was just thinking that I could get away with just the logger for now and get a rough tune, even after adding the 50 trim and cams. The eprom will allow me to stay on the AFC. I mean, if my A/F ratio is too lean or rich, I'd see the knock as my timing gets pulled. I intend to get wideband eventually, I just prioritized the bigger turbo, cams, and eprom, as they are my next steps that should take me to 400. I'm currently around 300.

When I bought this car it was lightly modded...just T28, built a/t, and 3" exhaust basically. With only that it put down 242 whp / 270 tq @ 15 psi. I've put so much $ and time into it for the past several months I really just want to hit 400 and enjoy it for awhile.

[RockSolidGST]

It also Depends how often you are going to change your setup , If your going to tune it once and keep it that way for a long time. You might not want to invest into a wideband.
A dyno that i got my car tuned at just put in a wideband for me for the tune, Granted i already have one. For me , Its there for safty , Just incase something does go wrong with the engine and my AFR spikes high , i can get off of it right away so i dont blow anything up.


Extreme PSI is having a sale on there NGK Wideband , At a very good price , PM them for details , Its worth it

[Rice Over Wheat]

Yeah I hear you on the safety issue, good call. I fully intend to get one, just tempted to push it to the back of the line. Ok so safety and ease of tune are the top reasons to get wideband.

[RockSolidGST]

Originally Posted by Rice Over Wheat

Ok so safety and ease of tune are the top reasons to get wideband.

Correct , And it makes the girls go "Whats that blinky thing"