over run

[Silent2g]

alright, i know some of you guys have gone mid 12's on a stock 1g mas.

my question to some of you is this
how the hell are you getting around over running the mas?

mines maybe a low 13 second car and i can't get past the over run to save my life without a 2g mas converstion.

at 4k rpms on 15 lbs its hitting 1606 quicker then ever {datalogger only goes to 1606}

i know for a fact i am over running it.

looking for any advice here

 

[GalantVR41062]

go to junk yard and buy 2g mas(any mitsu 1995-1999 or any 3s mas, mine was a 95 galant mas) and wire it in takes like 20min( and with 550s you dont need an afc 2g runs 18% leaner) then you can take a piece of sheet metal and cut it so you can rtv and screw the sheet metal onto the air filter and then with 4 srews and rtv it to the mas and it is 1" shorter than the 1g air can set up with the open air filter then take a 3" coupler from home depot and streach over mas then over intake. or set up a 2" inlet to open after the 1gmas with a filter and hope it does not run to lean.... or go AEM and MAP sensor, or TRE hot wire but they dont make that anymore....

I over ran with the mutt 1 a lot... 13.4@100 with 16psi knock of 40 and 5-6deg of timing at Rock Falls Race way Wisconsin... 2g mas saved me.

 

[Silent2g]

what im probably going to end up doing is getting the dejon 1g with 2g mas air adapter. and a cheapey filter mas plate and a filter i have in the garage. i was rather hoping i wouldn't have to go and do this to get around the over run. even put a hacked to piss mass air on there {removed bottom section} and got the same results.
pisses me off.

so the 2g mas does run leaner? how would this affect the a/f?? mine right now run .88-.90 pretty consistantly. guessing i might need to do the fuel pump when i do the mas.

po0py

 

[GalantVR41062]

with no fuel control you need to do 550s injectors. 18% leaner and the fuel pump will not compansate enough.

 

[candela]

I really didnt overrun mine until it started getting cooler and more dense. Im in AZ and was running 12's on my hacked 1G without anyfuel cut or anything. I hacked it a little more and it did ok until it started cooling off. I have 550's and an afc, but couldnt avoid running 1800+ and hitting fuel cut at anything over 16psi.... I bought a 2g mas unhacked and converted a a while ago. My HT rpm' setting are roughly +3-+7 across the board, and now it has a little more top end, no fuel cut, and hauls nuts when its cold =)

 

[jw]

1G MAS overrun around 2000hz. Some seems to get higher and still work fine. However, testing two 1G MAS overrun around 2000hz, I gave up.

 

[Silent2g]

so my 510cc injectors won't be enough??

crap. and i just got those things too

 

[jw]

Nothing to do with your injectors. MAS overrun is the limitation with the Karmen vortex sensor on the MAS and nothing you can do to prevent it unless you hack the MAS to allow more bypass air. More bypass air means less airflow across the sensor which delay the overrun.

 

[Silent2g]

Originally posted by jw
Nothing to do with your injectors. MAS overrun is the limitation with the Karmen vortex sensor on the MAS and nothing you can do to prevent it unless you hack the MAS to allow more bypass air. More bypass air means less airflow across the sensor which delay the overrun.

you really should read the posts above this to see WHY i posted the question about 510's

 

[candela]

You dont need to do 550's in order to run a 2g maf. I would recommend at leist 510's though, youll be fine. Yes the 2g maf flows like 13% or 18% more or something than a 1g maf, but what about all that unmetered air flowing passed a hacked 1g maf. I bet my 1g maf flows about as much as a stock 2g, as mine was personally hacked by Jason...=) Anyway just check your duty cycle on your 450's, I doubt if they will be anywhere near 100%, there are many who run 12's on them with 2g maf's and such. So id naturally assume that with the 510's you should be fine....

 

[Silent2g]

thanks man, thats what i wanted to hear. i do have a logger just in case.

 

[candela]

Oh and if you get 550's you should get some sort of fuel control. Just cause you got a 2g maf, doesnt mean your car will run smooth without fuel contro if you get 550's, I know from experience.

And silent Im actually curios to see how far some 510cc's would take someone, they arent very popular....you should stick them out until you max them out

 

[candela]

Sorry to keep osting. Just wanted to say, that for proof. When I switched from my 1g maf to my sg maf, I only richened things up roughly 1-2% across my board on my afc. Now, I dont know if that means my 1g was flowing only 1% less, or what, but it is tuned right now just fine, its just that I get lower kharman readign now and havent had to worry about fuel cut

 

[jw]

Originally posted by Silent2g


you really should read the posts above this to see WHY i posted the question about 510's

I've read your posts but didnt get your question correctly when you said your 510s injectors not enough? I thought you THINK that using bigger injectors can solve the MAS overrun problem using an AFC to lean it out. That concept is wrong. If you meant by using the 2G MAS w/ 510s, then I've read it wrongly. However, the info is still good for someone thinking about using bigger injectors to solve MAS overrun problem.

 

[Silent2g]

im trying to stay away from an afc as much as possible.
the reason i asked that is he was saying i needed 550's to over come the 18% leaner factor of the 2g mas..

my thinking is that with the 510's and 190 l/hr that i have, i should be fine with the 2g mas, just keep and eye on the egt's and datalogger

 

[jw]

I think I have mentioned in this thread:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16183

Regardless of 510s, 550s, assumption shouldnt be made without proper info (your logger and gauges). My guess is close loop should be fine but in open loop it's a different case.