so I finally kinda figured out how to "street tune"

[blcknspo0ln]

I've been playing around with my SAFC2 and logger [tunerstein] for the past few days. Reading and researching from past threads.. here are my results. of course I can use more tuning tips so PLEASE help me out

MODS:

evo3b16g and all supporting mods besides injectors. no boost leaks.

LOG:
WOT @ 3rd gear

rpm - o2 - timing - mph
2996 0.93 15 40
3116 0.91 8 40
3300 0.95 5 42
3540 0.93 6 45
3772 0.93 8 50
4036 0.93 9 50
4276 0.93 9 55
4536 0.95 8 60
4756 0.93 8 60
5012 0.93 9 63
5236 0.93 11 68
5492 0.95 12 74
5720 0.95 12 74
5944 0.00 10 78
6056 0.93 12 81
6264 0.93 13 85

SAFC settings:
HI/LO - 30%/80%

1k 2k 2.6k 3k 3.4k 4k 4.6k 5k 6k 6.6k 7k
HI- 0 -3 -3 -9 -9 -9 -9 -9 +17 +19 +14
LO- +15 10 5 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 0

now.. on to the questions...

since i have only a fuel pump as a fuel mod.. and i'm creeping to 18 psi at higher RPMs.. i compensated by adding about +18% from 5k+ rpms.

1. is this maxing out my injectors [tunerstein doesn't have IDC option]???
2. is this going to hurt my motor putting all this fuel in for the "compensation"?

also, it looks like i'm still running a little rich through the middle RPM range.. what's the optimum o2 voltage that i should shoot for? .091v? i'm already at -9% from 3k - 5.5k.

lastly, what else should i be logging besides rpm, o2 , timing?? yes i know mph isn't necessary but i want to make sure they're all 3rd gear pulls
thanks in advance.

[98spydert]

Well, first off looking at your log. You're O2 is ok at .93, somewhere around there, maybe a little lower, is where you want to be but you really don't want to look at that too much for tuning anyways. Pay attention to you timing curve. You want it to start out like it does around 10 then rise nice and smooth to 18-22, somewhere around there, with no dips or flat spots on the "curve." Those flat spots or spots where the number drops are KNOCK! You probably know how bad that can be. Plus when your ECU pulls timing, your car feels like a dog.

You can't log IDC or IPW on 2Gs unless you've got DSMLink. And yes, you're most likely maxing out your injectors around 15psi.

If your injectors are maxed out, adding 18% isn't going to do shit. If they're stuck wide open flowing the most fuel they can, SAFC changes aren't going to magically make them flow more. So take that 18% back to 0, that's making you run pig rich where your O2v jumps a little, then your injectors are maxing out as you get up there in the rpms and you're knocking, hence the timing curve is all jacked up. "Compensation" is used to adjust for different sized injectors because your ECU thinks they are still 450s even though you'd have 550, 650, whatever.

Again take that "compensation" away. But yes, extra fuel (mainly used to absorb heat to eliminate knock) can "wash" the cylinder walls and prematurly wear your rings. It also contributes to massive carbon build up everywhere.

As for logging, only log rpm, o2, and timing. Adding mph or anything else can effect your bitrate. Rather than having a log reading every 200rpm like you do now, you can manage 100rpm by only logging the three basics.

[blcknspo0ln]

thanks man. i appreciate the info. i'll go fix that setting tonight and see how my logs go.

*edit* just pulled the settings from my car..

last thing, should i try and lean out the midrange HI settings for a slightly lower o2 voltage.. i know you said it's not important but should I?

[98spydert]

Yeah, you can pull some more fuel as long as you're keeping a nice smooth timing curve up to around 18. Just go slow and pull 1 or 2% at a time.

[CanadianTSi]

Your on the stock Injectors...set your boost at 15psi and leave your settings at 0.

I am curious as to why you feel you need to add 15% fuel at Idle???

It's amazing you haven't hit fuel cut yet adding that much air but let me repeat , Your on the stock Injectors...set your boost at 15psi and leave your settings at 0.

[98spydert]

Read carefully now. He said it creeps to 18, setting your mbc at 15 isn't going to eliminate boost creep.

leave your settings at 0

Ignore that, even a completly stock car can benifit from the right small changes on the SAFC. Just because your injectors are stock doesn't mean everythings perfect.

[blcknspo0ln]

canadiantsi- I would assume that you're comments are correct but before i messed around with the SAFC my timing was fubared.. it was so inconsistent.. plus the fact that i was pinning close to 1.05v at WOT.. not good

the reason my low settings are 15% at 1k rpms is because i followed the SAFC FAQ. it said to richen or lean out the 1k low setting until LTFT was at 0%.. so that's exactly what i'm did..

[NewB2dsm]

Originally Posted by CanadianTSi

Your on the stock Injectors...set your boost at 15psi and leave your settings at 0.

I am curious as to why you feel you need to add 15% fuel at Idle???

It's amazing you haven't hit fuel cut yet adding that much air but let me repeat , Your on the stock Injectors...set your boost at 15psi and leave your settings at 0.

I agree with this 100%, set your boost as low as you can save up like 250 bucks and buy injectors then play with your afc.

Also your timing sucks, dont look at your 02 voltage look at your timing.

[blcknspo0ln]

yes i know my timing sucks that's why i came on here to ask what to do.

also, my other question wasn't answered.. so putting a -% setting on the SAFC will ADD or take away air?

my impression is that a -% adjustment will "take away" air therefore "take away" fuel.. someone PLEASE clarify this..

edit* also.. after i changed the settings [HI 3k-6k rpms] from 0 to -9% i noticed a GAIN in timing.. suffice to say.. isn't my mediocre tuning helping a little bit?

[1LE]

Originally Posted by blcknspo0ln

edit* also.. after i changed the settings [HI 3k-6k rpms] from 0 to -9% i noticed a GAIN in timing.. suffice to say.. isn't my mediocre tuning helping a little bit?

I struggled with the top end on my VPC/GCC setup until I saw a 2g fuel map... The ECU already starts bumping the A/F towards the rich side in roughly the 6k rpm range. So, theoretically, you could actually end up pulling more fuel on the top end and still be safe. I get nervous doing that, so I leave my curve flat up there (I WAS adding fuel and having problems) and let the A/F go a little richer (hey, it works for the factory, and I'm need reliability more than all out power. Going a LOT richer is definitely a bad thing though)

[CanadianTSi]

Play with the Low setting until your STFT gets close to 0, but since you have stock Injectors the car is pretty good at doing that.

Look at your timing, it's being pulled at many places through the RPM range.

Also for whats it's worth .93 and esp. .91 is considerd pretty lean for most 2g's.

My advice would be to put all your settings to 0 and then maybe add 5-10% in the upper RPM range of the high Table.

PS you are correct in your assumption of how the S-AFC works.

[98spydert]

Why the hell would you add 10% fuel to the high range??? Like that other guy said, the stock maps are already rich, especially in the higher rpms for safety. Honestly, stop giving him advice.


Yes blckspoolin, you tuing is helping if you're gaining timing. Just remember, when you're taking that fuel out (A LITTLE AT A TIME ) and your timing starts to flattin out or drop is certain places, that's too much!

For reference, today I made some changes and logged a run and my O2v was at .93 with no knock. I'd recommend .92-.94 IF you can get away with it. Just focus on the timing like everyone keeps telling you though. Good luck with your tuning.

[out there]

why not log a run with the afc at 0 to figure out where you need to help the ecu out?

also... i've found that the optimal o2 trim is .88-.9, so i would think that .92 is a bit rich.
by trying to keep the o2 around .88, i've found the timing followed along nicely
correct me if i'm wrong, please

[4G63dsmpwr]

I'm not positive but I think the optimum O2s vary from year to year...

My 92 AWD was perfect at .92V. My 90 is better towards .88V or so!

Just figured I'd give a heads up! I wouldn't go shooting for .88V, it can def. vary!

[blcknspo0ln]

canadian - i thought LTFT was supposed to be zeroed, not STFT

98spyder - thanks for the info man it's been VERY helpful

outthere - i think that may be true for 1g's.. but as far as i know .88v is really lean for a 2g..

i guess i'll go logging again..

p.s., i had my base logs [ SAFC at 0 ] in another thread.. then i went ahead and tuned and here are my results i guess ill get back to this thread in a couple days when i tamper a little more :eek:

[98spydert]

At idle, you want both the LTFT and STFT zerod or as close as possible, same with at a steady 50mph cruise with no throttle change.

[blcknspo0ln]

okay, thanks to your guys help i've bumped my timing up to 16 at around 6.2k , 3rd gear pull.

i was doing a little more research and apparently 16* timing is STILL not at optimum efficiency. i think i'm supposed to ahve 20-21* right?

lastly, should i log air flow rates when logging? it was mentioned that too high an air flow rate will result in pulled timing. if this is true, how do you adjust that setting? should i lean it out a little more and see if the hz goes down?

[CanadianTSi]

16 is pretty good 18-20 would be great.

And no you don't need to log airflow, it will just slow the logger down.

Just use the S-AFC and goo back and look at the highest value...more Hz is better.

What is the max Hz's you see??