engine managment

[4g63awdtalon]

i am looking for a new engine managment and i have been searching the forms to help me decide but want some more input. my choices are 1g dsm link, aem and autotronic.
i would like the dsm link but i don't think it would fully take advantage of my setup
if i am wrhong please correct me.
please give me some options thanks joe

 

[my97mitsGSX]

well what's your setup

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

DSMLink would be best for you. AEM is junk, and would require a lot of dyno time to get tuned good. I run Autronic, but to run it, you have to pull the stock engine harness and lay in the Autronic one.

In fact, I jut spoke to a guy at Godspeed tuning this morning about AEM versus Autronic. The convo went something like this..

Godspeed: Godspeed, how can I help you?
Colin: Hi, you have 4wd dyno?
Godspeed: Yes, well.. dynopack
Colin: How much you charge?
Godspeed: 200/hr
Colin: We have our own wideband, do you discount any for that?
Godspeed: We would just use our wideband to calibrate yours. We have a $5000 Bosch wideband system.. Most systems like LM1 or AEM read off
Colin: We have a $2000 Autornic Model A wideband and..
Godspeed (interrupting me): Oh, Autronic?! We won't discount the dyno any for not using ours, but those are fine and don't need calibrated. So you're going to be tuning the Autronic?
Colin: Yeah.. so how far are you from Louisville?
Godspeed: We just had a guy come up last weekend from there, about 5 hours I think
Colin: Was his name Devon Gray?
Godspeed: Yeah, he was very happy with his results.. he refuses to go to a bigger turbo though
Colin: Yeah, I saw the dyno's, they looked good. Ok, let me round up a trailer and I'll get back to you
Godspeed: No worries, thanks

 

[my97mitsGSX]

How can you say AEM EMS is junk? Its one of the best and lowest priced full engine management systems that is widely used.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

How can you say AEM EMS is junk? Its one of the best and lowest priced full engine management systems that is widely used.

Maybe because I've seen it on a Supra that it won't start, and won't shut off the fuel pumps even with the key out. I've seen it on a purpose built drag car, owned by one of the lead instrcutors of the east coast EFI101 class that won't turn on fuel pumps without tapping on it. I've seen it blow distributors left and right on Honda applications, go read Honda tech about it. I saw a Honda motor spin backwards on startup because the timing hunts around so bad at idle. Literally. Pulled the AEM shitbox off, re-plugged the stock ECU, and it idled, started, and ran perfect as the day it pulled off the showroom floor. I've seen it just forget maps while on. Catch RRE on a good day, they'll tell you about the 6hours of dyno time they lost because they didn't backup their AEM map on the laptop.

I know, before you say it, user error, or bad install. If it is user error, then every base map would have the same problem.. bits don't change in maps from user to user. And how the hell do you install a PLUG AND PLAY wrong?? Exactly, back to my point of AEM junk.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Maybe because I've seen it on a Supra that it won't start, and won't shut off the fuel pumps even with the key out. I've seen it on a purpose built drag car, owned by one of the lead instrcutors of the east coast EFI101 class that won't turn on fuel pumps without tapping on it. I've seen it blow distributors left and right on Honda applications, go read Honda tech about it. I saw a Honda motor spin backwards on startup because the timing hunts around so bad at idle. Literally. Pulled the AEM shitbox off, re-plugged the stock ECU, and it idled, started, and ran perfect as the day it pulled off the showroom floor. I've seen it just forget maps while on. Catch RRE on a good day, they'll tell you about the 6hours of dyno time they lost because they didn't backup their AEM map on the laptop.

I know, before you say it, user error, or bad install. If it is user error, then every base map would have the same problem.. bits don't change in maps from user to user. And how the hell do you install a PLUG AND PLAY wrong?? Exactly, back to my point of AEM junk.

i'd like to know how the motor managed to REVERSE directions.. as far as i know the starter only goes one direction...

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

After the starter disengaged. The ignition timing was so far advanced that the cylinder was firing too early, causing the pressure to stop and turn the engine the wrong way.

 

[4g63awdtalon]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/member.php?userid=16032

here is my mod list

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

DSMLink is going to be the easier and cheaper way to go. Autronic is more expensive and harder to install, but you get what you pay for. They are due out with the SM4 soon, if you can wait a few months it'd be well worth it.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

After the starter disengaged. The ignition timing was so far advanced that the cylinder was firing too early, causing the pressure to stop and turn the engine the wrong way.

awesome. you should have taken it down the track backwards and claimed the fastest 1/4 mile time in reverse in a DSM! you'd be famous!

you do realize that due to the nature of a 4 stroke engine it CANNOT run in the wrong direction?

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

awesome. you should have taken it down the track backwards and claimed the fastest 1/4 mile time in reverse in a DSM! you'd be famous!

you do realize that due to the nature of a 4 stroke engine it CANNOT run in the wrong direction?

It wasn't my car, it was a customers car that would not run for more than a few seconds at a time, and I just happened to walk into the shop as they were working on it. I understand how a 4cyl works. Do you understand that if you advanced ignition timing far enough that the cylinder fired during the compression phase, that it would stop the engine and, in this case, spin it backwards for a few revolutions? This was on a B series honda engine, feel free to call the shop and chat with them about it. http://www.autolabonline.com

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

it fires during the compression stroke be default, it will always fire BEFORE the power stroke.. it also will always fire 180* later in a wasted spark setup. and i said 4 STROKE engine not 4 CYL.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

it fires during the compression stroke be default, it will always fire BEFORE the power stroke.. it also will always fire 180* later in a wasted spark setup. and i said 4 STROKE engine not 4 CYL.

I know what you said. It fires typically at the top of the compression phase, otherwise, you have issues. Don't believe me, call those guys. They are the ones that got the car and fixed it by plugging the stock ECU back in. I personally have nothing to gain by bashing AEM, I just hate to see more people dicked for $1600 by buying a junk standalone. Have you ever worked with an AEM unit?

 

[91turboTSi]

How much is autronic? I plan on going with DSMlink, right now having success with the keydiver chip/hacked 2g mas/afc but looking to upgrade.

 

[JamiesTSI]

I heard good things about DSMlink. I personally run the AEM ems unit. These units are by far NOT plug and play. If you do not have the time, $$$, or patience, go with the link system. The ems will do just about anything you ask it to do, you just have to have a lot of time and engine knowledge to put toward it.

They(AEM) did have a number of programing issues in earlier versions. Most, if not all have been fixed with V. 1.11

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Have you ever worked with an AEM unit?

yes.

I heard good things about DSMlink. I personally run the AEM ems unit. These units are by far NOT plug and play. If you do not have the time, $$$, or patience, go with the link system. The ems will do just about anything you ask it to do, you just have to have a lot of time and engine knowledge to put toward it.

They(AEM) did have a number of programing issues in earlier versions. Most, if not all have been fixed with V. 1.11

pretty much states the facts

 

[my97mitsGSX]

Maybe because I've seen it on a Supra that it won't start, and won't shut off the fuel pumps even with the key out. I've seen it on a purpose built drag car, owned by one of the lead instrcutors of the east coast EFI101 class that won't turn on fuel pumps without tapping on it. I've seen it blow distributors left and right on Honda applications, go read Honda tech about it. I saw a Honda motor spin backwards on startup because the timing hunts around so bad at idle. Literally. Pulled the AEM shitbox off, re-plugged the stock ECU, and it idled, started, and ran perfect as the day it pulled off the showroom floor. I've seen it just forget maps while on. Catch RRE on a good day, they'll tell you about the 6hours of dyno time they lost because they didn't backup their AEM map on the laptop.

I know, before you say it, user error, or bad install. If it is user error, then every base map would have the same problem.. bits don't change in maps from user to user. And how the hell do you install a PLUG AND PLAY wrong?? Exactly, back to my point of AEM junk.

plenty of other reasons for user error, then what you described. It isn't "Plug n' Play" as much as AEM makes it out to be either. I've seen numerous cars run AEM w/o any problems. I've seen cars where hp levels increased and made the car run better, such a difference, it was like night and day!

My friend with AEM was tuning it himself.. he was like, Wow, what a difference, was able to pull an extra 23whp.. then he got it professional tuned and was able to squeeze out another 13whp.

AEM also is one of the best stand-alones for supra's.. I've seen hundreds of AEM systems installed on those cars. Maybe the few setups you seen were user error, a bad map sent from AEM, or something. I on the other hand, have never seen a bad AEM system to this date. And maybe your saying, well you probably only saw a handful amount of setups, well to be honest, i've seen over 300 AEM setups when I used to hang out at the tuner shop getting my parts ordered.

 

[4g63awdtalon]

money is no problem right now i have the key diver chip gm maf and an e-manage but want alittle more

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

my97, that's all fine and dandy. I believe Titan did the install on Ryan's Supra. Just because your Windows machine runs fine doesn't mean mine doens't crash, that's a terrible comparison. Success should be measured by how many units do not fail, not by the percent margin of those that fail. The facts remain, I will never touch an AEM unit. There is a thread right now as we speak in the advanced engine teh forum where two people have just installed an AEM and can't get their fuel pumps on. So what if it is user error, you can have the greatest product ever designed, but if no one understands how to use it, it's worthless. In this case, having my experience with the AEM junk, I would say it's not so much user error in that other thread.

 

[my97mitsGSX]

that's why AEM makes it clear to have it professionaly installed. Do you know how to operate a nuclear warhead? No, but i'm sure the nuclear engineers do.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

my97, that's all fine and dandy. I believe Titan did the install on Ryan's Supra. Just because your Windows machine runs fine doesn't mean mine doens't crash, that's a terrible comparison. Success should be measured by how many units do not fail, not by the percent margin of those that fail. The facts remain, I will never touch an AEM unit. There is a thread right now as we speak in the advanced engine teh forum where two people have just installed an AEM and can't get their fuel pumps on. So what if it is user error, you can have the greatest product ever designed, but if no one understands how to use it, it's worthless. In this case, having my experience with the AEM junk, I would say it's not so much user error in that other thread.

it's junk because you don't know how to use it? awesome logic! at least you are choosing to never touch one, which is GREAT because you aren't ready for one... honestly anyone who thinks a motor can spin backwards shouldn't be near any tuning device of ANY kind, or a car for that matter :laugh:

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

If Titan Motorsports isn't qualified to install an AEM, I don't know who is. I'm running a full standalone on my car, that I installed by myself with a friend of mine. I had to pull out the stock wiring harness, and lay in the new one. Then, we took a base map, which would barely run the car, slapped the wideband on, and tuned it out to 15lbs and daily driving on the street. Don't tell me about tuning on a standalone. That same wiring harness and standalone is on my AWD now (previous car was a 4g63 Mirage). On the AWD, we just tuned it out to 26lbs and Blue on the dyno last week.

I've got, and have had, the AEM software on my laptop for the past 6 months, partially because at first I played around with it, then later I had to load Ryan's race gas map on his ECU one night.

Why don't you just call up the shop I listed below, and ask them about it? I didn't say the motor ran in reverse, I said it spun backwards because the AEM hunts around with ignition timing something terrible at idle, especially on lopey cams. The AEM system is junk, get on Honda Tech, or get on AEM forums, how about reading the thread in the Advanced Tech right now about 2 guys that can't get their fuel pumps to kick on? Read and learn.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

If Titan Motorsports isn't qualified to install an AEM, I don't know who is. I'm running a full standalone on my car, that I installed by myself with a friend of mine. I had to pull out the stock wiring harness, and lay in the new one. Then, we took a base map, which would barely run the car, slapped the wideband on, and tuned it out to 15lbs and daily driving on the street. Don't tell me about tuning on a standalone. That same wiring harness and standalone is on my AWD now (previous car was a 4g63 Mirage). On the AWD, we just tuned it out to 26lbs and Blue on the dyno last week.

I've got, and have had, the AEM software on my laptop for the past 6 months, partially because at first I played around with it, then later I had to load Ryan's race gas map on his ECU one night.

Why don't you just call up the shop I listed below, and ask them about it? I didn't say the motor ran in reverse, I said it spun backwards because the AEM hunts around with ignition timing something terrible at idle, especially on lopey cams. The AEM system is junk, get on Honda Tech, or get on AEM forums, how about reading the thread in the Advanced Tech right now about 2 guys that can't get their fuel pumps to kick on? Read and learn.

what you don't understand is that the motor CANNOT PHYSICALLY SPIN IN REVERSE! i believe what you are trying to describe is an illusion that LOOKS like it would be possible but it's not. it LOOKS like spark 90* early would do what you are saying.. BUT 90* early there is not enough compression for ignition, so the engine STALLS.

 

[Hal]

Calling the AEM "junk" shows nothing but ignorance, and does a dis-service to the other members.

The number of people who have had good (if not great) results includes almost (but not all) of the DSMs with single digit E/T's.

It's certainly not for everyone, but like any other tool. It's only as good as the nut that's using it.

Hal

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

Ignorance is not researching a product before you buy it. The AEM is junk, I've stated my facts above. Your's is just that "lots of people use it with good results." I've seen enough of AEM that I'll never own one.