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Stroker Tech: 4G63 stroker discussions - 2.1L, 2.2L, 2.3L, 2.4L, etc.

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Old 04-03-2009, 08:35 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #1 (permalink)
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How to use your 4g63 Kevlar belt on your 2.4 Stroker :)


Well, I just thought I would make a quick post to say you can in fact use a 4g63 belt on your 2.4 stroker engine.


I myself just built a 2.4L G4CS Stroker w/ the DOHC 4g63 head bolted on and came to the timing belt.


I had ordered a 4g64 belt, but instead I had in my hand a 4g63 belt as i was sent the incorrect one.


Mind you this is a saturday night, and I do not want to wait another week to get another belt so i try like hell to stretch the belt over the gears and all.


I did actually force it on, although it was hideously tight, so tight when i pulled the pin on the BRAND NEW hydraulic tensioner, it did not move I could put the pin right back in.

BAD

Anyways.. on to the fix.


Take off your swinging arm that your hydraulic tensioner pushes against and take it to the bench grinder.

You can grind about 1/4 inch of material from the bottom pad, and put back on. This makes putting the belt on a good bit easier . On top of that you can time the car w/ the MHI timing belt install kit (to tension the belt correctly) and measure the extension of the pin after 15 mins and everything turned out in spec. after rotating it the 6 times to verify timing, and letting it settle I checked the belt tension by hand above the cam gears to verify it was not obnoxiously tight and it feels the same as the belt on my 2.0 does.

So there you have it a verified case of a 4g63 belt used on a 4g64 with the correct tensions applied to the belt w/ all new parts(not worn out) and everything came back in spec installing the belt by the book(w/ the slight mod).. Now we can easily attain a kevlar belt and stop worrying so much about timing belt failure.

Good Luck!



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Old 04-03-2009, 08:50 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #2 (permalink)
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By "bottom pad" do you mean the part of the arm that is pushed up by the tensioner pin?

And did you use 2.0 or 2.4 cam gears?

I know this has been done before (read about it on link forums) but good to hear more people are doing it!


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Old 04-03-2009, 09:08 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowborder714 View Post
By "bottom pad" do you mean the part of the arm that is pushed up by the tensioner pin?

And did you use 2.0 or 2.4 cam gears?
You're right, that is exactly what i was referring to.

I used Fidanza Adjustable gears, with both gears advanced 3.5 degrees to line them up. I did use a degree wheel to confirm valve timing vs the crank (Based on 2.0 valve timing) and the BC 280s were dead on w/ the recommended 3.5 degrees advance on both.



On a side note:
When I make it to the Dyno I will adjust the gears a bit to pull some more power from the engine. Last trip to the dyno on my 2.0 w/ Fidanzas I made an additional 15 AWHP and 8 FT/LB tq with cam gear adjustment alone. For reference those adjustments were 3 degrees retarded (from true zero) on the exhaust gear, and 1 degree advance(from true zero) on the intake gear.

If you're running aftermarket cams you need to be certain to degree them with a degree wheel before you start making adjustments, You may very well have a piston meet a valve if the cams are ground wrong. I own a set of 280's that are 3 degrees off out of the box.


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Old 04-03-2009, 11:02 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dacowgod View Post
....so tight when i pulled the pin on the BRAND NEW hydraulic tensioner, it did not move I could put the pin right back in.
This is how I've always set the tensioner on every 4G63 I've ever done a timing belt job on.

I originally started doing it by spec, leaving the proper 3.8 - 4.5 mm (.15" - .18") between the top of the tensioner body and the base of the tensioner arm and I'd always get that annoying buzzzzzzzzzz right around 2500-3000rpms coming from the timing cover.

I read on here in an older post that someone claimed the cure for the sound was to set the tensioner so the pin could be moved in and out freely when the tension was properly set. I've been doing it that way ever since- no failed timing belts, no annoying "buzz" from the timing cover.


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Old 04-04-2009, 09:53 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jusmx141 View Post
This is how I've always set the tensioner on every 4G63 I've ever done a timing belt job on.

I originally started doing it by spec, leaving the proper 3.8 - 4.5 mm (.15" - .18") between the top of the tensioner body and the base of the tensioner arm and I'd always get that annoying buzzzzzzzzzz right around 2500-3000rpms coming from the timing cover.

I read on here in an older post that someone claimed the cure for the sound was to set the tensioner so the pin could be moved in and out freely when the tension was properly set. I've been doing it that way ever since- no failed timing belts, no annoying "buzz" from the timing cover.
Same here, been doing it on the last 16 4g63's I've built, not a single problem.

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Old 04-06-2009, 05:34 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #6 (permalink)
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I found myself doing the same thing until my oil pump seized. I have no idea what caused the failure, but it cost me a built engine so now I do it by the book since some people believe it may be due to an overtightened belt.


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Old 04-15-2009, 06:03 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dacowgod View Post
I used Fidanza Adjustable gears, with both gears advanced 3.5 degrees to line them up. I did use a degree wheel to confirm valve timing vs the crank (Based on 2.0 valve timing) and the BC 280s were dead on w/ the recommended 3.5 degrees advance on both.
This is exactly the info I've been trying to find, thanks. Turns out I have the exact same setup: g4cs, bc 280's, fidanza cam gears. I've been trying to figure out my timing because I've been having lots of idle and overheating issues. So this evening I'll recheck my base timing and then try out the cam gears settings you used.


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Old 04-05-2014, 05:53 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #8 (permalink)
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2.4l 4g64 block 2.0l dohc head. Evo8 aftermarket cam shafts. Kevlar 2.0l timing belt. Simple install, no modification. No grinding the tensioner arm. No adjustable gears.
Not sure how op was setting it but if I loosen the eccentric pulley there is plenty of slack in the belt. Which of course I took all slack out till the belt is tight against the pulley and bracket against tensioner.
Just thought I would add some info to the subject.


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Old 04-05-2014, 07:25 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #9 (permalink)
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Are you sure the tensioner pulley isnt rubbing against the water pump?

And, the hydrolic tensioner is not in full strength while being compressed all the way down.


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Old 04-06-2014, 04:50 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #10 (permalink)
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Everything rotates fine. Without rubbing anything. And I only tighten the belt till slack was gone. I can push up on the pulley and it well barely come off the tensioner rod but not much at all. About the space of a small flat head. I can take closer pix if you want


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Old 04-07-2014, 07:04 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #11 (permalink)
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OP, in your first post you say, 2.4 stroker, I am confused, please explain.

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Old 04-07-2014, 05:53 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #12 (permalink)
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Ungrinded, no rubbing.


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Old 04-07-2014, 06:23 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #13 (permalink)
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I have a simple question.



Does anyone have a documented case of themselves(not a friend or random member) breaking a 4G64 DOHC belt due to too much power produced and not, in fact, due to a mechanical failure?





Also: it's not a stroker....it's a G4CS/4G64.


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Old 04-07-2014, 09:04 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #14 (permalink)
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I found mine being cracked after about 4 years and 50k miles or less.


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Old 04-07-2014, 09:15 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrackedDSM View Post
I have a simple question.



Does anyone have a documented case of themselves(not a friend or random member) breaking a 4G64 DOHC belt due to too much power produced and not, in fact, due to a mechanical failure?





Also: it's not a stroker....it's a G4CS/4G64.
You don't break a timing belt from power. The belt doesn't know if you are making 100 horsepower or 1000, it just turns the cam shafts. Stiffer springs are a little harder on the belt, but nothing that will damage a good belt.

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Old 04-07-2014, 09:20 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #16 (permalink)
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Do you have any more information and/or pictures?



Just for clarification my posts usually always come across like I'm challenging someone...I'm not. I meant my post purely as a neutral question. I'm genuinely just trying to figure out if I /need/ a Kevlar belt or if it's just a "there's not many examples but it's a peace of mind" type thing or etc because I am currently building a 2.4L myself. So nobody take my posts as the wrong way. If all else fails just ask me if I meant to be a dick, and I'll clarify yes or no.




Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanwheat View Post
You don't break a timing belt from power. The belt doesn't know if you are making 100 horsepower or 1000, it just turns the cam shafts. Stiffer springs are a little harder on the belt, but nothing that will damage a good belt.


That's what I've always thought, but Ricky's post kind of made it sound like he's broken or had issues with a timing belt due to power production or related parts so it kind of threw me off. So basically it's just a peace of mind thing?




I only ask because I've never had an issue with OEM timing belts or Gates belts from the parts store. Didn't know if I was just not making enough power(nothing over 600whp on a personal DSM I've owned) or if it was just sheer luck.


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Old 04-08-2014, 04:34 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrackedDSM View Post
Do you have any more information and/or pictures?



Just for clarification my posts usually always come across like I'm challenging someone...I'm not. I meant my post purely as a neutral question. I'm genuinely just trying to figure out if I /need/ a Kevlar belt or if it's just a "there's not many examples but it's a peace of mind" type thing or etc because I am currently building a 2.4L myself. So nobody take my posts as the wrong way. If all else fails just ask me if I meant to be a dick, and I'll clarify yes or no.








That's what I've always thought, but Ricky's post kind of made it sound like he's broken or had issues with a timing belt due to power production or related parts so it kind of threw me off. So basically it's just a peace of mind thing?




I only ask because I've never had an issue with OEM timing belts or Gates belts from the parts store. Didn't know if I was just not making enough power(nothing over 600whp on a personal DSM I've owned) or if it was just sheer luck.
I'm using my kevlar belt because I paid $180 for it. That's my reason. I don't want to just hang it off my wall because I have a 2.4 now. Oem dohc 64 belt would be just fine.


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