Oil supply line location ?????

FASTSPOOLINGST · Dec 13, 2003

Is this oil supply line location o.k. for my turbo?

I have the fitting to put it by my oil filter now, but it is currently located as in the pic, if it's o.k. i will leave it, if not i will change it, i like how it looks, but i really don't care, i want the safest place.

BUCK · Dec 13, 2003

Personally I think that's FAR better than running it off the Oil Filter Housing due to all Heat you pick up running across the front of the engine bay - mine goes in the port at the side of the head instead of the front one where you have it but the oil could care less although it MAY be a tad cooler around the corner farther from that Exhaust manifold...

The Teflon tape is doing nothing in that application BTW & could actually cause a leak - these fittings seal at the flare & Stainless to brass requires no anti-seize although a stainless 90 degree fitting instead of that brass deal would be "safer" as you put it... & then the tape or some anti-seize would be needed on a Stainless to Stainless joint - the seal would still happen at the flare - not the threads.

The stock line is orificed down to a very small diameter BTW - ever try & blow thru it? Is yours orificed at all?

& Where's your Exhaust Mani Stud? - Exhaust Leak / Heat will get to that brass fitting before long...

jdmawd · Dec 13, 2003

Originally posted by FASTSPOOLINGST
Is this oil supply line location o.k. for my turbo?

I have the fitting to put it by my oil filter now, but it is currently located as in the pic, if it's o.k. i will leave it, if not i will change it, i like how it looks, but i really don't care, i want the safest place.

I have had very bad experiences using the head as an oil supply source. Using non ball bearing turbos. what did you use to get the hex head bolt out of the head? I could not get that bi*** out to save my life, any help would be great.

BUCK · Dec 14, 2003

JDM you have tons of experience & mods but I dare say a LOT of non-ball bearing turbos supplied from the Head have gone 100K+ How do we know that the valvetrain doesn't LIKE the little bit of oil that is ported thru the small orifice in the stock oil supply tube to have that flow to the Oil Pan? If I had that BEAUTIFUL Turbo that you just bought it would be Oil fed from the Head! And BTW if the hex head bolt in the Head are like the hex head bolts in the Oil Filter Housing they are loctited at the factory & readily come out with very little heat from a propane torch (heat breaks down Loctite).

jdmawd · Dec 14, 2003

Originally posted by BUCK
if the hex head bolt in the Head are like the hex head bolts in the Oil Filter Housing they are loctited at the factory & readily come out with very little heat from a propane torch (heat breaks down Loctite).

cool i will give that a shot .

BUCK · Dec 14, 2003

Honestly - you put a little load on them with a GOOD wrench - apply the heat - & it pops.

jdmawd · Dec 14, 2003

I think the lack of a good wrench is part of the problem.

FASTSPOOLINGST · Dec 14, 2003

I used a allen wrench set that I bought that has all of them attached to a pretty sturdy stainless steel handle. It came off with little effort. I have the 90 on the front of the head only because when i tried to put it on the side, when you try to thread it, it hit the water neck and will not fit. I was f'd so i just removed the plug from the front and did the switcharoo on it. I just put thread tape on it to be sure that it didn't leak, i know it is a flared fitting, but just in case.

The mani stud broke off during removal of the stock mani. It's not leaking...yet anyways. I put a little soap water on it to be sure. Gonna be putting my heat shield back on also, to help in the heat protection against the line. So i guess i will just leak the line as is and not put it below near the oil filter... thanks for the info guys.

jdmawd what color is your car, i like the paint, i might give my 2g a couple coats of that color?

jdmawd · Dec 14, 2003

Originally posted by FASTSPOOLINGST

jdmawd what color is your car, i like the paint, i might give my 2g a couple coats of that color?

its actually the factory electric blue.

FASTSPOOLINGST · Dec 14, 2003

BUCK, what up I see u r in Mt. Pleasant I am in North Charleston.

Are there any performance shops down your way that are worth a damn, I know there isn't a single one my way.

C U on the street sometime

later

dsmturboawd · Dec 14, 2003

from what i understand, psi of oil is greater from the housing than the head. i would think a non ball bearing turbo would hate it from the head for this reason, as jdmawd has said.

BUCK · Dec 14, 2003

Originally posted by dsmturboawd from what i understand, psi of oil is greater from the housing than the head. i would think a non ball bearing turbo would hate it from the head for this reason, as jdmawd has said.

Ever looked at the orifice in a stock Turbo Oil Supply Line? It appears that Mitsu restricted the flow to maintain the Oil Pressure there at what kinda constitutes the "end of the line" for the oil delivery sytem - Oil at the head either drains back to sump via the big Oil drain passages thru the block or via the Turbo Oil Drain line. If you had insufficient Oil Pressure at the Head you'd know it quick - your lifters & cam would soon tick like a Mutha'... From what I gathered the ball bearing Turbos like a lower pressure but more flow - which maybe would call for a different than stock Oil Supply line but not necessarily from a different source - someone correct me if I'm wrong here. One of my questions was whether the oil line in this post was "orificed" down - the point was if it's not - as dsmturboawd says - you could lower the Oil pressure in your Head.

jdmawd · Dec 14, 2003

The head is not capable of supplying adequate oil volume or pressure. To properly lubricate turbos that use a standard thrust bearing. Under sustained boost levels that most dsm's use to make power. Forced performance will tell you this,PTE will tell you this and so will AGP.

here is some info i found very insightful in regard to oil supply location.

There are plenty of people who have oiled their turbo off the head and not had any problems, there are just as many if not more that have done it and had recurring turbo failure that was only vaguely described by the repair shop as "poor lubrication".
Oil pressure in the cylinder head on a stock 4G63 engine can be less than 5psi at times, while this may be enough oil for a factory 14b, T25 or even 20g it isn't enough to feed the high volume oil passages of the modified thrust setup in your FPGreen or FPRed model turbo. The Garrett severe duty 360 thrust setups also have an increased appetite for lubrication. Think twice before feeding either of these type turbos from the head.

Remember that you aren't just trying to keep some oil on the bearing, you are trying to float one piece of metal above another piece of metal on a pressurized film of oil, and at the same time keep the whole mess cool enough not to melt. A constant high volume stream of oil does just that, a measly trickle will send you back to the turbo shop.

BUCK · Dec 14, 2003

Good info JDM - I wonder why someone hasn't just installed a little heavier Spring or shim the spring - in the Oil Pressure Relief Valve to raise Oil pressure a little? Deleting the balance shaft lubrication requirements would more than mitigate any reduced flow rate from doing so IMO. It would be nice to see a higher pressure at idle - and actually see the gauge get up to the high mark at redline - I know that the manual states it's OK for it to idle below the low mark on the Oil Gauge but that is piss-poor indication engineering IMO.

doug · Dec 14, 2003

Originally posted by BUCK
I wonder why someone hasn't just installed a little heavier Spring or shim the spring - in the Oil Pressure Relief Valve to raise Oil pressure a little?

A local DSM shop around here suggested that to me-- I may try that when I get a chance.

Oh, and RRE also recommends running the oil supply from the filter housing.

BUCK · Dec 14, 2003

I would DEFINITELY be RID of the water to oil cooler before I upped any Oil Pressures - I'm sure you are familiar with the tendency of the water cooler to "spit" Oil Filter gaskets - and oil of course - it makes a helluva mess - been there - done that - bought the air to oil cooler.

And RRE SELLS those Stainless Oil Line kits too... remember that oil is not "free" - if you send it straight to the Turbo from the Oil Filter Housing via the kit your Main Oil Galley & eventually the Head - are NOT SEEING that oil flow...

Ronin17 · Dec 14, 2003

FASTSPOOLINGST: What adapter are you using for that? 1/8 NPT to 4 AN? Just curious, I will most likely be using this oil feed location for my GT30R (BB CHRA). Thanks

BUCK · Dec 17, 2003

Interesting THEORY posted by our own "Slim" Pickens:

Actually here's a simple yet VERY interesting theory. The 2gs and 1gs get oil for the turbo from different locations. I point that out because here's the theory. Have you noticed that when you upgrade a turbo on a 2g you almost always go w/ a ss oil feed line. That feed line replaces the stock fitting on the oil cooler, BUT that stock fitting is needed for proper oil pressure to the motor. Before you say BS, take a look at the inside of the stock oil line 19mm fitting on the oil cooler. There is a very small orifice that regulates flow/pressure to the turbo. Now take a look at any ss oil feed line kit on the market. That orifice is missing. A ss oil line will allow your turbo to get much more pressure and flow, but the problem comes from the fact that there is a trade off. The oil pressure at idle and low rpm is now reduced to the motor. If you don't believe it, hook up an oil gauge and switch the stock oil feed line to a ss and watch the difference in pressure. Now, this decrease in oil pressure may or may not be the cause of walk, but it would only take a poll to find out. If alot of people have walked and are using ss oil feed lines, then we perhaps can begin to draw a correlation.

doug · Dec 17, 2003

Interesting yes, but I tend to believe Magnus' theory on the 'walk more than this one. And there have been plenty of people get CW that are still using stock oil lines. Both theories have something to do with oil flow/pressure, however...

talonted_one · Dec 17, 2003

It looks like DSMs in the low country of SC is starting to pick up...It's about time. I am from MT Pleasant myself.

I myself have always run my oil feed from off of my head with no problems with on a 14b. I never expected to. Now I will be running a very large garrett and was wondering if oil should come from the head or the oil filter. and to be honest with all the reading I have done the only thing I know for sure is the fact that ball bearing turbos need cool fresh oil, and that is the one thing you do not get from the head.

Now knowing about that restrictor in the stock oil line brings up some good points, my question is how can anyone prove which theory is correct? For most people the damage that has been done normally takes thousands of miles to occur.

TalonJohn94 · Dec 17, 2003

What do you guys think about an EVO III upgrade on a 1g? It seems to be that by best bet would to just replace the factory feed line. On the other hand, SBR says that their SS feed line is essential for a new turbo, and I believe they said neccesary for the warranty they offer, which seems kind of strange.

So, should I just get a new factory need line w/new fittings, or get their SS feed line? Or should I get their feed line, and install it in stock location?

:confused:

RuBiCaNT5X · Dec 17, 2003

Originally posted by GoldÐiamond
What do you guys think about an EVO III upgrade on a 1g? It seems to be that by best bet would to just replace the factory feed line. On the other hand, SBR says that their SS feed line is essential for a new turbo, and I believe they said neccesary for the warranty they offer, which seems kind of strange.

So, should I just get a new factory need line w/new fittings, or get their SS feed line? Or should I get their feed line, and install it in stock location?

Wrong thread dood... This is a different topic than the one this thread is all about..

BUCK · Dec 17, 2003

Originally posted by GoldÐiamond: What do you guys think about an EVO III upgrade on a 1g? It seems to be that by best bet would to just replace the factory feed line. On the other hand, SBR says that their SS feed line is essential for a new turbo, and I believe they said neccesary for the warranty they offer, which seems kind of strange.
So, should I just get a new factory need line w/new fittings, or get their SS feed line? Or should I get their feed line, and install it in stock location?

RUBE:

Wrong thread dood... This is a different topic than the one this thread is all about..

BUCK: Rube - what thread are YOU on?

RuBiCaNT5X · Dec 17, 2003

The guy asked about whether or not it made sense for Slowboy to make a SS oil line required for a warranty as well as if an Evo3 16G is worth it, not on a discussion on head vs. oil sender to feed thier turbo... How is what he said pertinent..?

doug · Dec 17, 2003

What I understood his question to be was whether he should get Slowboy's SS feed line in conjuction with his new turbo purchase in order to protect its warranty. Not whether the turbo is good or not.

To answer, I would get the new line in order to protect the turbo's warranty-- RRE also has the same policy, I believe. But, if you're pretty convinced that this new line is gonna cause more expensive damage to the engine than just the cost of a new turbo, then you may still have some hard decisions to make...

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Oil supply line location ?????

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