New everything, still won't start!!!

Staged · Nov 21, 2003

This question is for my 1992 Talon TSi. The car was bought with a thrown timing belt which resulted in a row of bent valves.
Here is what has been done:
Head cleaned and resurfaced
Good valves placed in with new valve guides
All new gaskets from the head up
New coil packs
New Power transmitter
New plugs and wires
All hoses replaced
New Battery, alternator checked and is still good
New belts
New timing adjuster (The part with the pin you have to compress when setting the timing belt on).

Here is the problem, it is doing the exact same thing it was doing when the head was bad. The car doesn't sputter or get exhaust farts. You can smell fuel after cranking on it for about 20 seconds. You can hear the relay under the dash engage and the fuel pump prime when you first turn the key. It will turn over nice and smooth without any hesitation. The timing was rechecked by way of physically re-doing it. There was fire going to only 1 and 4, and so the coil packs were changed. Then the fire was still only at 1 and 4 so the Power Transmitter was found to be bad and it was replaced.
What is my next logical move to getting this car to run? I was lucky to find the Power Transmitter, now I am REALLY lost! I DID however remember to check the timing beltS and not just one.
Thank you all for your help!
Travis
It will just not start!

theunstoppable · Nov 21, 2003

maybe a new ecu?

leet · Nov 21, 2003

If you have fuel and spark delivery, check timing.

BISHILVR · Nov 22, 2003

are you sure that u dont have the cas 180 degrees out?? check out the other post in here about cas set up where it was explained how to set the cas upon installation if u are in doubt at all......

BUCK · Nov 22, 2003

My bet is ECU - that clicking under the dash could be your ECU power relay freaking out over the toasted capacitors - been there - done that - bought the refurbished ECU - $400.00

Dieselboy · Nov 22, 2003

Agreed. Take out the ECU, crack it open, and inspect the circuit board for damage and evidence of leaking capacitors. A hinderance of rotting fish or seafood smell is also an indication of leaking electrolites from the cap.'s.

Mike1992 · Nov 22, 2003

my bet CAS is 180 out of phase

Staged · Nov 24, 2003

Checked the CAS, reset it with TDC and made sure the notches were matched up and then placed it back in place. Still turns over evenly and no cranking. Not even trying. I checked the compression and get about 140+ across.
Does anyone have any idea whether I can try the ECU from a 90 on mine to replace the ECU? I only know of the year difference and the fact that the 92 has ABS, and it is FWD not AWD like my 90.
What about the MPI unit? Can I switch those to try that too?
Thanks to everyone so far that has helped! I am sure we can figure this out! :confused:

Staged · Nov 24, 2003

Okay, a little more info.
I pulled the ECM from the car. It had a rebuild in it from an Eclipse dated September 19, 2000. I popped it open after calling the number to find out the warranty was over anyway. No burns or melted components. No moisture or residue from past moisture. Everything looks fine. The only real difference that the computer may have between this 92 and my 90 is the AWD in the 90. I know the ABS is not controlled there and as far as I know everything but the transmission is the same.
Does anyone know if I can use the ECM from my 90? And what about the MPI relay? Should I be able to switch that over too?
Thanks! :cry:

BISHILVR · Nov 24, 2003

yes on the mpi relay...prob not on the ecu, the 90 had it's own wiring which was different from all the rest...not sure if it will even plug in.

sprinkle · Nov 26, 2003

may be a dumb ? but i didn't see it mentiooned.... did you check the mpi fuse?

Staged · Nov 26, 2003

Okay... update and a question...
It was not the computer (ECM/ECU). I got another one that was known good and it still does the exact same thing, will turn over evenly but no cranking.
Thanks to Bishilvr! I replaced the MPI Relay and the numbers do match from the 90 to the 92. The computer (by way of another poster) will plug in but the mapping is all wrong. I used the advice to succesfully locate another which leads us to here...
Okay! Sprinkle!!!!! No dumb question has ever existed in the history of man except for every single one Chrissy asked on Three's Company. You mention an MPI "Fuse". I replaced the relay under the stereo in the dash. Is there an actual fuse? Do you happen to know where it would be? Or if there are other fuses relays I can check?
And now for my nearly dumb question! WHAT NEXT?

Again, the computer replacement did NOT work and the MPI relay is now replaced. Making it a long list of things done and a shorter list of possibles.

Thanks!

Staged · Nov 26, 2003

Found the fuses. Replaced the Ignition and the MPI fuses. No go. Stil not working.

NA All The Way · Nov 26, 2003

Maybe the problem is bad fuel. How long has the fuel been sitting in an undrivin car? Have someone spray some starter fluid in one of the vaccum ports while cranking and see if it wakes up..

Staged · Nov 27, 2003

Will try that first thing in the morning! It has been sitting for about 2 months. The fuel that was in it before (I drained it when changing out the fuel pump) was there for like 2 years.
I bought the car for $250 and then started working on it for the little things when I pulled the head off about 2 months ago. I am just njow getting to everything.
Great idea!!!! I will let you know!!!!!

jrivard00 · Nov 27, 2003

I guess the next step is to check all the sensors to see if any are bad. CAS, CMP, TPS, etc.

Staged · Nov 28, 2003

Okay, drained the tank, dried it out with this chemical from Pep-Boys, put 5 gallons of fresh 92 octane, still won't start. Pulled the fuel line from the rail again and turned the key to on, fuel sprayed for a second. Put the line back, sprayed Engine Start just past the throttle body butterfly and still no start.
I did discover that the #2 and #3 plug wires were backwards on the coil pack, but fixing that did not help. In fact, if it means anything, it did not change anything about the way it was turning over.
Will start checking sensors Monday, and let you all know!

Staged · Dec 3, 2003

The CAS on a 1990 Talon Turbo has a different connector from the 92 Talon Turbo. I was told that it would work if I needed to replace it, but would have to wire it in. The wires on the 90 are Black, Red, White, White, in that order. The wires on the 92 in the same order are Black, Red (Both are much thicker gauge), Black, White.
Is it possible to use the CAS from the 90? And do I just wire the first white with the second black in the same order?
Thanks!

Staged · Dec 3, 2003

Okay, replaced the CAS, checked for spark, rechecked the timing, rechecked the compression. All is good.
Here is the situation at this point...
When the motor is turning over, there is a really strong smell of gas. It seems to be coming from the driver's side, but I cannot find any leaking. There is the strange reality that the engine is flooding. You can wait 2 or 3 days and not even touch the pedal, and the smell is immediately there after only a few seconds of trying it.
I am thinking that the problem is fuel. The fuel is obviously pumping to the rail. Maybe injectors? Or can the fuel regulator cause it to not start? Is there a canister on the fuel return line, and can that be the cause?
Here is the only catch... I have sprayed Engine start into the TB and it still won't even try to crank. Can the TPS cause it to not start?
Someone PLEASE help!

Thanks!

92redman · Dec 3, 2003

Are your injectors leaking either into the engine or maybe the o-rings are leaking on top and just letting fuel leak out the top. Maybe the bottom o-rings are leaking and letting air passed them, on my car part of one of the lower o-rings is stuck so that there is a slight leak causeing a slight missfire, maybe if you have air getting into multiple cylinders it won't start.

Staged · Dec 3, 2003

I just replaced the injectors with known good ones and replaced the upper o-rings with new ones. I also replaced the fuel pressure regulator just in case. There was fuel in the rail when I was removing it.
I did NOT replace the plastic o-rings at the bottom of the injectors... hmmm. I will do that next, but will be going to the dealer for them.
A strange sound happened about 10 seconds after shutting the ignition off. The regulator sounded like it opened up and the sound of air or fuel went through it. I barely caught it, but it does this everytime. Is this normal?

92redman · Dec 3, 2003

It should stay closed when the ignition is off, keeping fuel pressure in the line to make it easy to start up the next time. The only reason it should open is if the pressure was too high.

BUCK · Dec 3, 2003

My FPR makes that BRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTT noise occasionally between shifts - moreso since I changed my Fuel Filter. It will also do that if you spin it for 20 seconds or so with the Injectors disconnected - I don't think what you are describing is any problem whatsoever & it could briefly lift without the ignition being on after you cut it off - it's a mechanical function - it's a relief valve that occasionally relieves itself.

Staged · Dec 3, 2003

I think you both hit on something, and it makes sense. The pressure WOULD be up if the pump is trying to push fuel into the fuel rail, and the fuel has no where to go.
And the valve would release the pressure when the injectors are disconnected, but when connected, would mean they are ACTING disconnected, which means they are not working.
What can cause the injectors to not fire?

BUCK · Dec 3, 2003

MPI fuse - which I'm sure you checked a thousand jillion times - Disconnect the Injectors & see if you get any different FPR events than when you have them connected - another idea is just to pull the 3 bolts out of the fuel rail - lift the rail & see if they are firing. Put your cigarette out first - And I can say from first hand experience that a Fire Extinguisher in a Garage is a Good Thing - nice Christmas present too.

Remember what I said about flooding your crankcase with gas after prolonged periods of turning the car over & not running - you CAN Hydraulic & bend a rod - been there seen that - the previous owner did it in my case - (it was a dead ECU) - check your oil for gas contamination now & then - I could actually see the puddles of gas on top the cylinders with my Mag-Lite & of course the Dipstick told you what had happened too...

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New everything, still won't start!!!

Staged

theunstoppable

leet

BISHILVR

BUCK

Dieselboy

Mike1992

Staged

Staged

BISHILVR

sprinkle

Staged

Staged

NA All The Way

Staged

jrivard00

Staged

Staged

Staged

92redman

Staged

92redman

BUCK

Staged

BUCK

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