PLEASE NO ONE POST THE WENT DOWN THAT PATH BEFORE POSTS, THIS IS HERE TO HELP THOSE WHO WANT IT!!

I am writing this post, to clear up a lot of common misconceptions about the 1g 4G63 Non- turbo motor.

There were 3 models produced:

4G63 F 6 Bolt Crank 135hp
4G63 M 7 Bolt Crank 135hp
4G63 K 7 Bolt Crank 167hp (94 Talon ES SE only 250 sold in US)

(I will now call the motors by there corresponding letters: F, M, K)

F and M had 240cc Fuel injectors.
K had 300cc Fuel injectors.

F and M had short lift period cams (less then turbo on intake, same on exhuast)
K had long lift period cams (same as turbo on intake and exhaust)

Cast Piston with compression ratio of 9.0:1.

These pistons are weaker then the turbo pistons, and also have thinner ring shelfs.

The 5spd Tranny’s on the Non-Turbo have a higher final gear then the turbos, allowing for a faster bottom end, but less top end (unless there is more horsepower put behind it).

A Faster Bottom end, means beter ¼ mile, so why switch to a turbo tranny, all the parts inside are the same strength, just not the same gear ratio.

I have a 4G63K in my car and it toped out stock at 152mph, clock by radar gun (license suspended for 6 months for that stunt, won’t do it again).

At Moroso Speed Park with 130 Octane gas, the car ran a 14.9sec ¼ @ 84mph with just a cut air can and complete exhaust system (ported and polished exhaust headers, not performance ones).

Other then the things listed above the engines are the same as the 4G63T except for the ECU and a couple of sensors (knock and MAS).

But what can be done about a NT to make it faster….. NOS would be the most logical solution for the price. But the increased pressure from the NOS can lead to the same detonation as a turbo, melting internals, (so don’t go over 25 shot, but I don’t suggest it for long periods of time).

And then you think turbo… Too expensive!!! Or maybe not!!!!!

To make a NT into a turbo pocket rocket, is really no that hard, with a lot less boost then the turbo cars.

First there are a few things you need:

Turbo ECU or SAFC (to better control the fuel curve)
Turbo intake cam
Stronger Clutch
Exhuast manifold
Turbo
O2 Housing
Downpipe
Side Mount Intercooler, BOV, And all Piping
Knock sensor
MAS from a turbo 1g or a converted 2g MAS
Fuel Pressure Regulator (aftermarket)
450cc or larger fuel injectors and fuel pump
Boost Gauge, EFT Gauge, Air to Fuel Ratio Gauge
Stronger Pistons and rings (either forged(9.0:1) or 2g(8.5:1) or EVO(8.7:1))
MLS Metal head gasket

That’s it!!!

The common misconception is that lower compression pistons are needed. But this is simply not true, the Chrysler portion of DSM in the 60’s was known as the HEMI motor Corp. I4 Hemi Head were designed just for the 4G63 motor, allowing for extreme pressure to be achieved. All that you need to do is put in a Multi layer steel head Gasket to contain the extreme pressure.

With more pressure, you need more fuel to stop detonation. As long as a turbo ECU monitors fuel or a SFAC does, the engine will be free of detonation at standard levels of boost.

By Standard levels of boost, I mean on a NT 8psi or less, and this should take a car that produces 135hp (F and M) and 167hp (K) up to about 230hp (F and M) and 250hp(K), (maybe 10hp or more less).

Ok a turbo maxing at 8psi (even a TD05 with a 16g compressor) will spool at about 1800rpm (already tested on my friends 94 gs, and worked perfectly), allowing for 13 and 12 second ¼ miles. (My friend ran a 13.23@104mph on this setup I created for the NT 1g carsat 8psi).

You must do the install right though, THIS IS NOT FOR THE NOVICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All the parts can be purchased used for as low as $600.00 and new for $2500.00 (Plus the price to install, if not doing yourself).

I will go into selecting the right turbo and intercooler setup and pistons in another post.

PLEASE NO ONE POST THE WENT DOWN THAT PATH BEFORE POSTS, THIS IS HERE TO HELP THOSE WHO WANT IT!!

Thanks for the great info!! I was really wondering why everyone said "you have to change the tranny" but it sounds like the nt has better gear ratios. Now once all that is done and if I would also put in the turbo pistons or aftermarket ones i could follow the same upgrade path as if it was a factory turbo right?

Yes you could!, but fuel is the key, you have to have a SFAC to manage it properly. With upgrades, the turbo ecu won't do.

The reason why I know that the NT tranny would be faster 1/4mile, is the fastest dsms are the 4WD and they have even a higher final drive then the nt.

All for Manual tranny (list goes from slowest 1/4mile gearing to fastest)

turbo FWD 4.153 (same on 2g)
Non turbo 4.322
turbo AWD 4.929 (same on 2g)
GVR4 AWD 4.929
EVO AWD 5.435 (that explains with 280hp low 13's stock)

hope this explains the gearing some.

Time to start making more trips to the junkyard... }:>

So why can you only go up to 8 psi? Also, I have 117k on the engine, should I rebuild it before doing any of this?

The NT pistons and rings are too weak, to take the pressure and heat of more boost then that. No mater what, you need a stronger head gasket, so while you have the heads off it is a good idea to do the heads and clean the combustion chamber up. But I always suggest rebuilding with the turbo cams,MLS head gasket and stronger pistons and rings.

I can imagine and know what everything means except for the SFAC. Is it some sort of fuel management system, like an ECU or what? And where can I pick one up if I decide to do this pocket rocket conversion? Is there not misc wiring that needs to be done as well for the knock and new MAS and even the fitting for the new ECU. The turbo ECU doesn't fit into the computer ports of a N/T.

okay i am burning oil, my buddy is a mechanic he is rippin my engine apart on august 19th(that's his only free day) what do i need to change and what should i change while the engine is apart?> and what parts should i buy to do this conversion and where do i get them? any help will be greatly appreciated.. thanks a million

You better be up at like 6am and working till midnight. It's a lot of work and I don't think he will be able to do it all in one full day unless he has a lot of experience. You need what the guy listed
Turbo ECU or SAFC
Turbo intake cam
Stronger Clutch
Exhuast manifold
Turbo
O2 Housing
Downpipe
Side Mount Intercooler, BOV, And all Piping
Knock sensor
MAS from a turbo 1g or a converted 2g MAS
Fuel Pressure Regulator (aftermarket)
450cc or larger fuel injectors and fuel pump
Boost Gauge, EFT Gauge, Air to Fuel Ratio Gauge
Stronger Pistons and rings (either forged(9.0:1) or 2g(8.5:1) or EVO(8.7:1))
MLS Metal head gasket

Still, what the hell is a SAFC?
This will be my august project... haa haa... I'll be driving my dad's 300M for a while. Damn automatic. (My buddy just #@%#@%#@%#@%ed his turbo talon up in a huge crash from behind. I'm taking the parts from him. Cept he has racing pistons... are they okay as long as the compression is relatively low?)

no i don't plan on doing all of that stuff right away i don't have the money yet.. when i idle at red lights for a while or going into a store when i pull away there is a small puff of blue smoke.. the longer i sit the more smoke.. so obviously it's burning oil down into the chambers.. meaning new valve stem's right??? but what else should i get?? and should i just upgrade them now for when i do decide to do that other project.. or should i just put stock back in and do all of the upgrades at once? will just doing valve stems fix my oil problem or do i need a head gasket or what?? like i dunno what to change while i'm in there.. i was going to just save my time and let the garage do it but they wanted 750 before tax for it i laughed my ass off and said no thanks i'll do it myself

Hey i was wondering if there is any other way of telling that ur car is the "special" 160 hp version other then looking at the crank?

tbTalon read the vin if it has a k in the 5 or 6 place it is the special edition engine.


The turbo ecu can be swaped in will little effort. the harnesses are the same except for the missing wires, use the pinout found at vfaq and connect the knock sensor to the right ports on the ecu.

A SAFC is the Apexi super air to fuel controller. It changes the air readings from the MAS to allow more fuel, or less into the engine (works in line with the ecu. I suggest using this with the NT ecu only for low amounts of boost, 5psi or less, and for anymore use the turbo ecu and the SAFC.

Honda if you are burning oil, have fun, and hope he is a good mechanic. check the valves (they should be fine), the most likely problem is the piston rings. If your car has more then 80k on it, change the crank bearings when you open the block (has to be done to remove pistons, to replace rings). The best thing to do for your rebuild, is spend the money on some forged pistons and racing rings (better pressure holding) : $450 or use 2g : $200 or evo :$300 pistons and rings and maybe some stronger rods (always a good thing). And a strong Head Gasket MLS at mitsu dealer for $87 plus tax. But what ever you do, if you have it apart do it good, with the best parts to save your self from problems later. But make sure if you plan on going turbo, think strength. And while you have the engine out it might be a good idea to clean the engine bay, check the axles, break lines, steering linkage and put in a turbo wire harness, this will save you from probs in the long run.

Almost forgot if your going turbo, STRONGER CLUTCH, DON'T FORGET!!!!

Turbo ECU or SAFC (to better control the fuel curve)
Turbo intake cam
Stronger Clutch
Exhuast manifold
Turbo
O2 Housing
Downpipe
Side Mount Intercooler, BOV, And all Piping
Knock sensor
MAS from a turbo 1g or a converted 2g MAS
Fuel Pressure Regulator (aftermarket)
450cc or larger fuel injectors and fuel pump
Boost Gauge, EFT Gauge, Air to Fuel Ratio Gauge
Stronger Pistons and rings (either forged(9.0:1) or 2g(8.5:1) or EVO(8.7:1))
MLS Metal head gasket

this is what is needed, to save money go to a junkyard (be careful pistons from a junkyard might look good, but always use new rings).

If there is none by you that have the parts, e-mail me [email protected] I have alot here with the parts, you send money, I'll buy them and ship them to you. I am not here trying to make money so what it cost is what you pay plus the shipping, unless I have to pull the parts my self (then $30 dollars for my time should be fine), I will provide the num to the junkyards when I find the parts, so you can verify the price i give you.

oh yeah Honda, the vlaves are the least of your worries, most people I know who have a dsm and burn oil, espeacilly on the nt, is because of the rings, really thin on the nt.

so basically just for a good fix for now just buy thicker rings?

yeah, but if a ring goes, it damages the ring shelf on the piston and sometimes the bore in the combustion chamber, you will have to replace the piston the ring went on (on high mileage car, best to just change all the pistons and rings) and get the bore fix by a machine shop

I planned on polishing up my engine anyway. Anyone else think they could pull this off when they have some free time and hit the junk yard for parts?

I already went and got the parts, just waiting to have surgery on a torn acl in my right knee, then when it heal, I am doing the works, 12;s HERE I COME!!!!

It can be done in 1 weekend I think, depending on how mechanically inclined you are.

xypno, do you think just changing the valve stems may do the trick.. i don't feel like rippin it down to the block if i don't have to.. but i will if this doesn't work,, but if you say no chance this will work i will just rip it to the block the first time

If I already have 8:5:1 JE pistons, Crower rods and HKS cams on the way, they do work for the turbo and are very strong and would be able to take the boost... am I not correct?

honda replace them valve stems most likely won't do anything.

TimG they would work perfectly, with those internals, a high flow fuel pump, large fuel injectors and a safc you could get large amounts of boost 10 - 12 psi, and even more with the turbo ecu and fuel injector resistor pack, possibally even the same boost as the trubo when moded slightly (about 14psi). Go for it, let me know how it goes.

I know what the SAFC does. It's a fuel controller, but I don't understand where I would connect it too as I've never actually heard of it before. Can you explain in some detail what EXACTLY it does and how to install it and with what ECU?

it connects inline between the MAS and the ECU (will come with more detailed instructions) it reads the amount of air going through the MAS, then reads from the ecu, how much fuel is being added to the engie. It then changes the singinal going to the ecu from the MAS, to read more air to get teh ECU to add more fuel, or less air to get the ECU to add less fuel. This intern lean or richens the air to fuel ratio through the rpm range. so with a turbo that forces more air then a stock ECU can handle and adjust fuel correctly, it then allows for better control over the fuel curved. This is a very good mod, and can unlock hidden power from the engine. But be careful, you can ruin performance by making the engine to rich, or even melt internals by making the engine to lean.

Got a question for ya, will the 167hp motor bolt up in a 92 model?

yeah but whats the point, it would cost almost the same as the turbo motor to buy.

I found a good deal on an experienced turbo engine... about 150000km or 93000miles. I'm just going to rebuild it and add my aftermarket cams, pistons and rods as I go along. It is in good condition. I hope I can say the same for the valve and combustion chambers... oh well, nothing a die grinder and some port polishing bits can't help. Yet, I'm still putting it into my N/T body and selling my N/T engine... it's still very young... 100000km or 60000miles. Changin clutch, ECU, head gasket... ect is still needed though. Anyone else doing the conversion or attempting?