Im thinkin on buying one whats the best bang for the buck thanks guys!!

http://www.turbotrix.com/parts/driveline.shtml

FWD limited slip differential

BM sells a Diff. insert for only $200, but have to find someone to install it.

Its the silver box looking thing with 4 red springs in it.

cheapest:
phantom grip insert
bmtranny insert

best:
quaife
kaaz


there is no cheapest and best; not in the world of positraction.

Kaaz. For this reason:

http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/kaazvstorsen.asp

I had a Quaife in my GTi and It was amazing. I know Marco dones't like Quaife because he has a problem once with a guy working there or something.

What he says about wheels commin off the ground in a kazz vs. torsen is true, however in an AWD car that's not likely to happen. Even if it did you still have open or torsen style in the rear so your going to lose power regardless because we have more than one differential.

It also depends on the differential you are talking about. A nice upgrade for the big power guys is the Quaiffe Center Differential. In high HP applications, the fluid in the VC center differential takes time to heat up and become more viscous to drive the rear end with power. The Quaiffe center is mechanical and gives you instant power. The shelf life on the VC differentials is around 100k miles or so. I do agree with the overpriced factor. The Quaiffe center is around $1300.

Both DSMJim and RuBiCaNT5X makes good points, and having owned an AWD, I would know that traction is not as large an issue. For a FWD where traction is less than perfect, the clutch-pack type LSD would be beneficial because of its fast reaction and 100% power transfer to the wheel that is on the ground ( but then I'll have to ask why are your wheels off the ground ).

The Quaife is an excellent unit and would work extremely well for a center and front differential application on an AWD DSMs, but for FWDs, I would recommend the clutch-pack type LSDs.

I have not spoken to Marco concerning his opinions on LSDs ( the traction devices ), but I would believe that his points about the "weaker" construction of the Quaife ( being that it applies the force of transfering power on the casing of the actual LSD unit instead of the clutch pack ) would only apply to a FWD or RWD vehicle running slicks, as that would be the only way to produce enough stress on the differential to cause a failure ( and it would have to be extreme stress, 500+whp ).

I would recommend Quaife for any AWD vehicle for either the front or the center differentials, and the Kaaz LSD for a FWD application.

Originally posted by Groomz
I have not spoken to Marco concerning his opinions on LSDs ( the traction devices ), but I would believe that his points about the "weaker" construction of the Quaife ( being that it applies the force of transfering power on the casing of the actual LSD unit instead of the clutch pack ) would only apply to a FWD or RWD vehicle running slicks, as that would be the only way to produce enough stress on the differential to cause a failure ( and it would have to be extreme stress, 500+whp ).

I would recommend Quaife for any AWD vehicle for either the front or the center differentials, and the Kaaz LSD for a FWD application.

Click to expand...

As far as HP and failure on the Quaife unit lets not forget Kenny Tran (Jotech) runs a quaife (yes he really does) and runs 8.59 @ 172mph with over 1000whp and his car is pretty reliable. I'm sure he blows a few up, but hell look at the car.

http://www.raceworks.net/qsteam/Kenny.htm

Either way any differential, Kaaz or Quaife is a better unit than one that works on hot Goo. (..) :laugh:

So wha tdo u guys think about the b&m lsd from slow boy ?? I was just wondering i seen it for 199$ and said dame thats cheap !!!
It must work decent better than stock !! I definately need traction !! ANd one using this id love to know!! Thanks guys!

Originally posted by Happy
So wha tdo u guys think about the b&m lsd from slow boy ?? I was just wondering i seen it for 199$ and said dame thats cheap !!!

Click to expand...

Those springs put pressure where it was designed to go LarryD had one in his fwd car and his tranny fluid looked like shit when it came out. As for performance it works decent. I didn’t get to drive the car a whole lot but both wheels spun instead of two. It may effect your handling though because both wheels are turning at the same speed through a turn.

I got my B&M in during a tranny/clutch rebuild/replacement. Car accelerates great and handles MUCH better (I have power in 1st gear!). Once the lil SOB runs right (engine), i'll take her to the track.

Ok cool so you went with teh b&m and u like it was it hard to install?? My tranny is sitting on the floor so i thought id put a new clutch in and a lsd !! Thanks we will be in touch may need soem help how to install!!

The install on a phantom grip is pretty easy but its not worth the time..... They are NOT limited slips at all!! They are limited locks that unlock with more load!! it only uses spring tension to hold the axels from sliping......... My buddy called me up and said he got a lsd and wanted to know if I could install it? So I went over to put it in.... he pulled a phantom grip out of the box and I was like what the f!!! is that.
I put it in and with in one summer of him going to the drag strip with
nt 555 on his car it was toast!!

phantom grip=total waste of $$$ Buy a KAAZ or a quife, I dont care for quifes, but I rally and they are no good when one wheel comes off the ground

Larry #622 scca club rally.........................

drooooool!

Originally posted by DSMJim
As far as HP and failure on the Quaife unit lets not forget Kenny Tran (Jotech) runs a quaife (yes he really does) and runs 8.59 @ 172mph with over 1000whp and his car is pretty reliable. I'm sure he blows a few up, but hell look at the car.

http://www.raceworks.net/qsteam/Kenny.htm

Either way any differential, Kaaz or Quaife is a better unit than one that works on hot Goo. (..) :laugh:

Click to expand...

The funny thing is that they built a drag car with thousands upon thousands of dollars and required sponsors, while J. sheperd, built himself a street car that runs almost the same times. HAH!

Originally posted by laserspeeddemon
The funny thing is that they built a drag car with thousands upon thousands of dollars and required sponsors, while J. sheperd, built himself a street car that runs almost the same times. HAH!

Click to expand...

Mmmmkay?

Sponsors are nice, yes, but not necessary. Mr. Sheperd is just very smart and knowledgeable about DSMs and knows how to make them dangerously fast. Quaife does offer a lifetime warranty on their LSDs, so go ahead and break one if you can, the'll replace it.

And as for insert "LSDs", they have no place on DSMs or anything else that isn't my sister's tricycle, so we'll have no more talk of them from now on.

Originally posted by Groomz
Mmmmkay?

Sponsors are nice, yes, but not necessary. Mr. Sheperd is just very smart and knowledgeable about DSMs and knows how to make them dangerously fast. Quaife does offer a lifetime warranty on their LSDs, so go ahead and break one if you can, the'll replace it.

And as for insert "LSDs", they have no place on DSMs or anything else that isn't my sister's tricycle, so we'll have no more talk of them from now on.

Click to expand...

Actually, I'm sure jeff has some sponsors.

And there are other things to consider with warranty's. So Quaife warranty covers the the replacement of the LSD, do the cover the labor involved in replacing them, what about the damage it will cause to other drivetrain components, when the LSD falls apart?

And whats with the hating of the LSD inserts. I think the designers of these things thought outside of the box, when building them and they are very inexpensive. And it will do fine for low HP applications. After all, not everyone is trying for the 500 awhp mark.

I know some of the off-road guys on other boards just weld their differentials so its locked all the time. I know that would be cheap if you could weld.

Is this plausible on our open diffs?

Originally posted by madmax
I know some of the off-road guys on other boards just weld their differentials so its locked all the time. I know that would be cheap if you could weld.

Is this plausible on our open diffs?

Click to expand...

You could weld the front diff, but if you like to turn I would not suggest it........... Welded diff are always a good upper body work out.......

Larry

I dont know if u could weld i asked that a while back and they all laughed at me So if u could i could do it in a few mins !!
As for the lsd insert saying its no good when u probably never even had one before !!
I am goin to buy it and like he said im not goin to be making 500whp just 400whp so i should be fine with that!
And if that dont work the B&M lsd then still for the money i will have saved from not buying the expensive lsd's then i will buy a set of slicks and still have awesome take of for a lot less$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Think out side teh box not in it boys!!!

boys? Am I to assume you are a lady?

Originally posted by Happy

As for the lsd insert saying its no good when u probably never even had one before !!

Click to expand...

This is one situation where it would seem pretty obvious to me that the design of an insert LSD is a horrible idea for anyone looking to produce any kind of power, not just super high horsepower figures. You can and will break an insert LSD even on a stock vehicle. It uses springs to provide the locking function, which would wear out eventually and probably break ( I did say probably ). I would say to anyone who wants to buy an insert LSD to go for it. We can meet at the track and have a little "clutch-type LSD vs. insert" battle and see who wins. If you can make it off the line without breaking something.

The idea of an insert is poor because it uses the existing differential housing and puts added stress on it with the springs. The original differential was not designed to support any type of insert LSD to begin with, so what makes anyone think that it would hold up well in anything but a completely stock vehicle? And if you are putting in an insert LSD, you are probably modifying your DSM to go faster anyway ( why put in the LSD in the first place? To go to Miccky D's? ), so why cheap out on something that is known to break under pressure?

This is like the thread I read about some keyboard surfers defending keeping the balance shafts for stored energy and protecting the electronics.

They ( companies ) sell inert LSDs to people who like to save money but not think.

( That should make some people angry )

Originally posted by Happy
I dont know if u could weld i asked that a while back and they all laughed at me So if u could i could do it in a few mins !!
As for the lsd insert saying its no good when u probably never even had one before !!
I am goin to buy it and like he said im not goin to be making 500whp just 400whp so i should be fine with that!
And if that dont work the B&M lsd then still for the money i will have saved from not buying the expensive lsd's then i will buy a set of slicks and still have awesome take of for a lot less$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Think out side teh box not in it boys!!!

Click to expand...

Happy If you plan to make 500hp and get it to the ground in the right manner..... yeah sure your gonna save a bit of cash but in the end it is a waste of money..... As far as the comment about never owning one maybe you didnt read that I installed one for a buddy with a fwd and a cliped big 16 and nitto nt555 and it was smoked after a few days to the strip........THEY ARE JUNK..... you are using just a very small section of metal to metal contact to hold..... Not to mention the back of the gears that the diff insert presses up to is a nast casting not a smooth machined surface! It was never ment to do such a thing......

But I never designed or built motorsport shocks/struts for national
autox and rally champions for the last 4 years or anything
Along with building gearboxes for dsm's and porsche's

Do you understand how it works???? If not you need to learn a bit about diff design.......

Dont waste you money!!!! buy a old open diff and have it welded.......... but dont plan to drive around parking lots............


Call john at TEAM RIP and see what he has to say about those!!

Larry
#622 SCCA CLUB RALLY

Ok #### it then i wont bother getting one!! I know i am not goin to pay a 1000$ for a lsd ! No ####in way!:thumbdown
I will wait and just get a built tranny of someone cheap allready with a lsd in it!!
If someone was selling one of these used would it be safe to buy it??? Or no??
thanks once again!

You could, but you may need to take it to a machine shop and have the
top and bottom ground...... See what happens is that the gears start to spin on the top and bottom of the plates and eventually it will wear a nice polished super hard groove in the plates, Then Its wount grip anylonger...... Kinda like a glazed brake pad/rotor............................

My kaaz cost 732.00....... but I would just get a used box from some one and weld the thing and if you dont like it you can always put your stock stuff back in........

My buddy has a spool in his civic that made 600hp to the wheels
(25k+ in the car) but when he finished the motor and we went down the street with 185 street tire he had to fight the wheel to get in his drive way........But then again he did have power steering.........

I think a phantom grip will hold up in a 115hp crx or civic but nothing
with high hp.........