I've heard lots about water injection kits being sold for wrx's but i was wondering if there was a way to customize the kit to fit in our manifold. Has anyone else ever thought about doing this? I've seen water injection setups give 30-40 HP on pump gas so i was very interested in this.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DSM_water_injection/

ALL internal combustion engines respond well to water injection. Turbos make it even better.

not to hijack, but specifically how does this differ from propane injection(other than obvious things)?

'theTuner' needs to do more 'theStudying' or perhaps more 'theSearching'.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37933&highlight=water+injection
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88762&highlight=water+injection
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69175&highlight=water+injection
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16001&highlight=water+injection

Thread moved.

whoa, hadn't ever seen any water injection threads anytime recently, sorry about that, thought it might be interesting to discuss. WI doesn't seem to be that popular with DSM's i was actualy kijnd of curious why...... cheap, effective way to raise hp

Originally posted by dsmturboawd
not to hijack, but specifically how does this differ from propane injection(other than obvious things)?

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Propane does _some_ cooling, and _slightly_ boosts octane. Water is primarily a knock reducer, and will allow more timing advance. It also continually cleans the combustion chambers, so losses from carbon buildup and general crudding are all but eliminated.

Mike Licht and SMC are working on a DSM specific system now. Designed as an alchohol set-up, but Mike says it could also be used for water or water/alc.

http://fullthrottlespeed.com/Dynamic/index.asp?CartId=14863759ZKJHI-EVEREST-58
http://www.smcenterprises.com/injector_kit.htm

Water injection also has a nasty habit of corroding intake parts, cylinders, valves, and heads. If you do it, make sure to

Always warm your car up completely, never shut it down after running it a short time (to avoid condensation)

Check your oil frequently, change it often

And a warning light when the tank gets empty isn't a bad idea. Running out of knock suppressor at the wrong time could be bad.

Originally posted by Defiant
Propane does _some_ cooling, and _slightly_ boosts octane.

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SLIGHTLY boosts octane!?

I think not.

i thought WI only sprays when your at WOT or once u hit a certain amount of boost, or is this only Certain kits?

Originally posted by kpt4321
SLIGHTLY boosts octane!?

I think not.

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Well, if you ever do start thinking, please elaborate. Propane's on the order of 104 octane, but you use so little in an injection system that I'm hesitant to believe it adds much. I think the primary benefit with propane is the cooling.

Originally posted by LousyDriver
Water injection also has a nasty habit of corroding intake parts, cylinders, valves, and heads. If you do it, make sure to

Always warm your car up completely, never shut it down after running it a short time (to avoid condensation)

Check your oil frequently, change it often

And a warning light when the tank gets empty isn't a bad idea. Running out of knock suppressor at the wrong time could be bad.

Click to expand...

Most injection systems on turbos are pressure-triggered, so few of these conditions exist. There doesn't seem to be any effect on engine oil.

In 100,000 miles of sucking water through -not injecting- my '69 Datsun 2000, corrosion's not been an issue. Engine run-on without water was a _huge_ issue. It drinks about a quart per ten gallons of gas.

Of course you could always use Alcohol or methanol as well.

Originally posted by inline4
Of course you could always use Alcohol or methanol as well.

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You can, but I wouldn't because:
(1)water provides far, far better cooling
(2)most pumps (at least aquamist and shurflo) will not do well with 100% methanol.. the viton seals don't like it in too strong of concentrations. Although I believe up to 50% is considered ok (could be misremembering the number, definitely check with your supplier before trying).

If however you are outrunning your fuel system, injecting alcohol or a methanol mixture (or propane) is one way to add more fuel in addition to some charge cooling.

-Adrian

Originally posted by kpt4321
SLIGHTLY boosts octane!?

I think not.

Click to expand...

why do you think not? propane injection does raise your ocatane level. Propane also helps reduce "hot spots" because it is injected in gaseous form not liquid like gasoline allowing better overall coverage in the cylinders. Why do you think it does not raise octane?

Chris

Originally posted by -=TWITCH=-
why do you think not? propane injection does raise your ocatane level. Propane also helps reduce "hot spots" because it is injected in gaseous form not liquid like gasoline allowing better overall coverage in the cylinders. Why do you think it does not raise octane?

Chris

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kyle was being sarcastic. He was saying it rasies it more then "slightly" =)

I have been running the smc kit for about a year now. The pump did go bad on me once, and the pressure switches had issues(leaking/broke). All that was sorted out without anything more than me sending it back and getting it fixed for free(+shipping). While it was gone, boy did I miss it. I wasnt able to boost more than 15psi on my 20g(stock injectors) due to knock, best time on that was a 13.7

While on the alcohol, I could boost 20psi without a problem, and ran a 12.8 with 2 counts of knock throughout the whole run(stock injectors/pump gas). If that isnt proof that It works, I dont know what is.

Oh heres a pic of the new setup along with some nitrous solenoids.

The bottle fits perfectly into the charcoal canister strap
Screw YOU CALIFORNIA TREE HUGGERS !! (reffering to smog nazis, CARB, etc.,)

Originally posted by turbodsm90
I have been running the smc kit for about a year now. The pump did go bad on me once, and the pressure switches had issues(leaking/broke). All that was sorted out without anything more than me sending it back and getting it fixed for free(+shipping). While it was gone, boy did I miss it. I wasnt able to boost more than 15psi on my 20g(stock injectors) due to knock, best time on that was a 13.7

While on the alcohol, I could boost 20psi without a problem, and ran a 12.8 with 2 counts of knock throughout the whole run(stock injectors/pump gas). If that isnt proof that It works, I dont know what is.

Oh heres a pic of the new setup along with some nitrous solenoids.

The bottle fits perfectly into the charcoal canister strap
Screw YOU CALIFORNIA TREE HUGGERS !! (reffering to smog nazis, CARB, etc.,)

Click to expand...

Yep the SMC kit is great those GN guys have been usuing that for along time.

Originally posted by djpast
kyle was being sarcastic. He was saying it rasies it more then "slightly" =)

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Oh ok just making sure

the propane thing has been argued to death as to why it helps with knock. the cooling effects are negligable (vaporizes in the tank) and people much smarter than me have shown that the amount of propane going in is not nearly enough to effect the octane rating. what every one did agree on is that it does give u a more even and more compleat burn of the fuel. I'll see if I can find the threads on it and post them up

maybe this is a stupid question, but can you run water AN propane injection or would that be inefficient or dangerous or whatever..Im looking into doin somethin custom in my car and it looks like they both have advantages, it just seems like it would be kool to have them both

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Originally posted by inline4
Of course you could always use Alcohol or methanol as well.

Originally posted by ahains
You can, but I wouldn't because:
(1)water provides far, far better cooling
-Adrian

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I have to somewhat disagree with this statement. If you look at the heat of vaporization of methanol, it is HUGE. Now compare that to any other alcohol. Methanol plays a big role in reducing charge temperatures as well. Like you said, the ideal mixture is 50/50.

WI itself doesn't give you more HP, it reduces detonation and preignition which allows you to run more boost, this is where the HP is coming from.

Originally posted by dls93tsi
maybe this is a stupid question, but can you run water AN propane injection or would that be inefficient or dangerous or whatever..Im looking into doin somethin custom in my car and it looks like they both have advantages, it just seems like it would be kool to have them both

Click to expand...

i run both propane and water injection

www.cardomain.com/id/spooledu

Chris

I ran a SMC injection kit on my Grand National for the past 2 years without a bit of trouble other than a leaking pressure switch which was shipped to me free of charge. I plan on installing the kit on my Talon as soon as it is up and tuned. On my Buick I went from running 16 PSI on the street to 22 PSI on the street with no knock. The results were indeed impressive. As for worrying about the pump corroding, I run a little Klotz uplon lube in every tank of Alky and have not had any trouble. The leaking switch was a common occurence and a redesigned metal switch was sent to me.

Matt

Water or alcohol injection can actually provide more horsepower in three ways. (1) It allows more boost to be used before pinging (2) It allows more ignition timing before pinging occurs (3) It greatly cools and thereby condenses the mixture even if the boost isn't increased, resulting in more fuel and air into the motor at the same boost level. I think we DSMers should get with the Buick GN guys on this subject. They're way ahead of us!