Idle Problem Video

evogst97 · Mar 25, 2007

Vacuum is low, currently 10, has seen 15 at best (20 when everything was not messed up)
Started after cylinder head job
Compression is great
No Boost or Vac Leaks
MBC is good
Replaced ISC
Cleaned TB
New BISS
Bad Gas Mileage+ Pig Rich
Idle Sounds like crap (listen to video)
Cant tell if their is a powerloss or not while driving but feels okay
No smoke other than black from fuel (rich) FUEL SHOOTS OUT EXHAUST
Idle goes down when AC goes on
Got a CEL of P505 (Idle)

And heres the video:

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merqury · Mar 25, 2007

I have the EXACT same problem and symptoms as you. Check out the video here - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256945

My car idles like that too, around 8-900 rpm. I got same CEL Code P0505 and replaced ISC. The vac is low, and the idle drops when I turn on my AC. Compression is good.

People have suggested it may be the timing belt. Did you check that yet? What is your current BOV setup?

eboy0 · Mar 25, 2007

Same exact problem, though my vac jumps around a little bit, around the 13's area.
Also get the pulsing from the exhaust and a hissing in the intake manifold.
Poor mileage and not much power top end.

1993eclipseGS · Mar 25, 2007

Is your car out of time? That would make the idle sound like that. You said your car is pig rich, Why? If it is pig rich, That would also cause the idle to be like that, Along with black smoke at idle. Dumb question but I'm guessing your mafs is plugged in. Did you connect your safc yet? If yes, Are you sure all your maps are still there after you got the car all fixed, And are you sure no wires came loose?

jeremy19984g63 · Mar 25, 2007

Who did the timing? If there are no Vac leaks, then that might be something to look at.

evogst97 · Mar 25, 2007

1993eclipseGS said:
Is your car out of time? That would make the idle sound like that. So would a big boost leak. I suggest checking the timing first.

When I checked it, it looked lined up...this was a while ago but I could check again. I had some mechanics check the timing for me and they said it was good. Is there anything else that could effect the timing that I could check other than the belt? Also I did a boost leak test and couldn't find one leak(20 psi). A smoke test to check for vacuum leaks was done as well and no leaks found. I'm really frustrated and to the point where I want to sell the car!!!! Any other suggestions?

Oh also I hear a sizzling sound sometimes in the engine which made me think wiring but I have no idea.

1993eclipseGS · Mar 25, 2007

Your profile says a built head? Did you get cams installed? It sounds like my 2g with 272's.

evogst97 · Mar 25, 2007

1993eclipseGS said:
Is your car out of time? That would make the idle sound like that. You said your car is pig rich, Why? If it is pig rich, That would also cause the idle to be like that, Along with black smoke at idle. Dumb question but I'm guessing your mafs is plugged in. Did you connect your safc yet? If yes, Are you sure all your maps are still there after you got the car all fixed, And are you sure no wires came loose?

I have no idea why its running rich, if anything I would think lean since I am on stock injectors and fuel pump (bigger ones coming soon) I'm running low boost and don't have my SAFC installed yet. I dont get smoke at idle only when I really rev it does black smoke come out. My MAF is plugged in. I cant see any wires that are loose and all vac lines are connected correctly.

evogst97 · Mar 25, 2007

1993eclipseGS said:
Your profile says a built head? Did you get cams installed? It sounds like my 2g with 272's.

The heads not really built just a few things(MLS headgasket, headstuds, new valves,etc) mostly stock replacements. No cams.

merqury · Mar 25, 2007

evogst97 said:
Oh also I hear a sizzling sound sometimes in the engine which made me think wiring but I have no idea.

I get the same thing, it sounds like a spark somewhere but I cant seem to find it. It only happens once in a while. Does it come from around the valve cover/wires area?

Funny how every symptom we have is the same.

evogst97 · Mar 25, 2007

merqury said:
I get the same thing, it sounds like a spark somewhere but I cant seem to find it. It only happens once in a while. Does it come from around the valve cover/wires area?

Funny how every symptom we have is the same.

Somewhere around that area. Close to the injectors maybe. I still need to check those to make sure its good. I really need to get this fixed and am confused and about to explode. I wonder if the balance shaft belt isnt lined up but the timing marks are. Well anymore suggestions? Also if anyone knows the answers to the questions I asked please help me out.

Eclipse98_RS · Mar 25, 2007

I used to have the exact same problem too. I had 3/4 exhaust manifold bolts fall off. I had it fixed and it didnt do it anymore. I had the BISS screw adjusted as well, that could be your problem.

eboy0 · Mar 25, 2007

Yup, I got that too, kinda like a spark but when you try to get closer to the spark sound, I hear a more of a hissing noise.

evogst97 · Mar 25, 2007

Eclipse98_RS said:
I used to have the exact same problem too. I had 3/4 exhaust manifold bolts fall off. I had it fixed and it didnt do it anymore. I had the BISS screw adjusted as well, that could be your problem.

My manifold bolts are on there good but I'll double check them.

eboy0 said:
Yup, I got that too, kinda like a spark but when you try to get closer to the spark sound, I hear a more of a hissing noise.

Hissing would be more of a leak, I'm hearing a sizzling like an electrical thing.

On a side note, did everyone who has these similar problems have or do a cylinder head job? My issues started after the head job.

thor · Mar 26, 2007

evogst97 said:
On a side note, did everyone who has these similar problems have or do a cylinder head job? My issues started after the head job.

YES!

I had the exact same problem. shitty idle, no vac.. turns out my valves were partially open- the resulting problem? bad lifters. After I took them out and cleaned them after my head rebuild, they never worked right again. I bought a set of 3g lifters on ebay and it fixed the problem, and the low vacuum.
I think the low vacuum signal messes with the TB but the computer doesn't compensate and dumps the same amount of fuel into the head, causing it to load up, hence rich exhaust.

Is it a pain to start sometimes? I had that problem too.

edit- any accessories (load on engine) would cause the idle to drop and make it worse.

oopovertyoo · Mar 26, 2007

thor said:
YES!

I had the exact same problem. shitty idle, no vac.. turns out my valves were partially open- the resulting problem? bad lifters. After I took them out and cleaned them after my head rebuild, they never worked right again. I bought a set of 3g lifters on ebay and it fixed the problem, and the low vacuum.
I think the low vacuum signal messes with the TB but the computer doesn't compensate and dumps the same amount of fuel into the head, causing it to load up, hence rich exhaust.

Is it a pain to start sometimes? I had that problem too.

edit- any accessories (load on engine) would cause the idle to drop and make it worse.

Definatly sounds like a BAD CASE of lifter tick to me so sounds like you could be right as far as the valves staying open so +1 on the lifters

edit - i have the exact opposite my car bounces of the idle limiter goes up to about 2k and the kills and drops to 1k then back up again

jibberishballr · Mar 26, 2007

oopovertyoo said:
Definatly sounds like a BAD CASE of lifter tick to me so sounds like you could be right as far as the valves staying open so +1 on the lifters

edit - i have the exact opposite my car bounces of the idle limiter goes up to about 2k and the kills and drops to 1k then back up again

I didnt know lifters could cause bad vacuum. Also It doesn't sound like what I've been described to as lifter tick. Would it give the car the sound its making right now?

Also on a sad note:

modding might be out of the question. California is g_ay. My friend with a 2004 RSX-S with intake, exhaust, and headers was pulled over. He got a ticket and can't drive his car now. He was pulled over when he was only at 4krpms and his exhaust is much quieter than mine. He has a warrant for his arrest and must return the car to stock. He also cant drive it until it is stock. This basically makes me hate Cali and ruins my life.

merqury · Mar 26, 2007

So if the valves are partially open that would result in bad lifters? or is it the other way around? What's the diff. between 3g and 2g lifters? How hard are they to replace?

thor · Mar 26, 2007

here's the vfaq page- http://www.vfaq.com/FAQlocator-index.html scroll down to the lifter cleaning/replacement page and click the link.

the lifters could definately be bad. mine wouldn't leak down and held the oil inside causing the valve to be open ever so slightly. It even caused my compression check to be 80 psi or less on all cyl's and leakdown was at 70%.

I changed my lifters while the head was on the car when I was having trouble the first time. Be prepared to be frustrated though, getting the rocker back onto the valve/lifter proved to be challenging. It took me over 2 hours total.

1g vs 3g are basically the oiling hole on top is larger on the 3g, and there's a groove cut on the 3g. see the vfaq page- it describes it well at the bottom.

This is just what i've found. There's a number of other things that could be wrong, but when you said that it started happening after the head was worked on, that would be my guess on the culprit

jibberishballr · Mar 26, 2007

thor said:
here's the vfaq page- http://www.vfaq.com/FAQlocator-index.html scroll down to the lifter cleaning/replacement page and click the link.

the lifters could definately be bad. mine wouldn't leak down and held the oil inside causing the valve to be open ever so slightly. It even caused my compression check to be 80 psi or less on all cyl's and leakdown was at 70%.

I changed my lifters while the head was on the car when I was having trouble the first time. Be prepared to be frustrated though, getting the rocker back onto the valve/lifter proved to be challenging. It took me over 2 hours total.

1g vs 3g are basically the oiling hole on top is larger on the 3g, and there's a groove cut on the 3g. see the vfaq page- it describes it well at the bottom.

This is just what i've found. There's a number of other things that could be wrong, but when you said that it started happening after the head was worked on, that would be my guess on the culprit

Well my compression didnt drop at all when I did put the lifters on, but I guess it could be worth a try. Would lifters cause it to make the sounds its making in the video? Also would it cause that much of a vacuum decrease?

jibberishballr · Mar 26, 2007

Sorry forgot to tell you guys I'm on my brother's account jibberish. This is evogst.

merqury · Mar 26, 2007

Members on my thread are suggesting the timing. So far I think that is the only problem since I've tried everything else.

If you've changed your ISC this post may be useful - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=50443104&postcount=6

doggo · Mar 27, 2007

merqury said:
I get the same thing, it sounds like a spark somewhere but I cant seem to find it. It only happens once in a while. Does it come from around the valve cover/wires area?

Funny how every symptom we have is the same.

That sizzle sounds is typically from around the TB passenger side is typically the ISC. ALso, I watched your video and your RPM is basically right on 800. It's not idle surging. It does sound a bit rich, and also sounds like lifter tick or noisy valves. But no idle surge.

Idle surge as caused by the ISC is NOT when your idle varies slightly between 750-850. Its when it varies between 500 and 1500, or more.

1993eclipseGS · Mar 27, 2007

Idle surge is exactly what the name says. A Surge in idle. Weather it be a big surge, Or only a slight surge. I would highly suggest checking the timing again.

evogst97 · Mar 28, 2007

1993eclipseGS said:
Idle surge is exactly what the name says. A Surge in idle. Weather it be a big surge, Or only a slight surge. I would highly suggest checking the timing again.

Will do. I think I might have figured it out. My friend who was helping me with the head job worked on it a little while I was in class. I got back and was happy to find he had put the intake manifold back on. (back when we were working on the head). He called me today and said he thought of something he might have done wrong...great.

He says when he found the intake manifold gasket it had a dent in it so he hammered it out and put it on. I'm like WTF?!?!? So that could have been the problem the whole time. The only problem is when I did a boost leak test I didnt hear any leaks.

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