I'm thinking about doing an LPG conversion... street machine ran an article on it that talks about high boost and no power losses, better fuel mixtures etc etc... but it doesn't talk about the downsides of it.

Anyone who knows a bit about LPG conversions on 4G63's, your input would be appreciated

Thanks,

Astaroth.

Has anyone ever heard of converting your car to run on propane to make you car smog exempt? Supposedly it will become a alternative fuel car and once it is certified it will never have to be smoged again. I found out about this on honda tech. Here is what the guy said:



Yes, the B20 is a truck motor, yes, it is an illegal swap. Conventional wisdom would agree with you, however, we use propane gas to pass any engine swap in any car. There are legal ways to smog a B20. Read on......

Illegal B20 swap + propane gas = Alternative Fueled Emissions compliant engine swap. Alternative fuel is the key word here, forget the motor swap, with Alternative fuel, it is all about making the swap run clean. Even if the engine swap is a turbo GSR, Standalone with ITB's, once it is run on propane, all the performance mods are now legal because you can argue that the GSR, turbo, Standalone and ITB's are needed to take advantage of propane's 110 octane rating. This is cutting edge here, just because this is a loophole that is not commonly used, doesn't mean that it is BS.

Keep in mind that, once you remove the propane and re-tune your setup to run on 91 octane pump gas, you are no longer 100% legal, but wait, there's more.... here is the good part.... the BAR referee sticker in your engine compartment doesn't specify fuel. So, when Johnny law does pull you over, all they do is scratch their heads and wonder how you BAR ref'd a turbo GSR, Standalone with ITB's....

Besides BAR reffing your engine swap there is another interesting loophole that keeps Johnny Law off your back, it is called smog exemption, this exemption is a one time emissions test on propane that certifies your vehicle as an Alternative fueled vehicle and smog exempts the vehicle FOREVER, with smog exemption, you will NEVER have to smog your vehicle ever again, even when you sell it. Smog exemption is a legal loophole that smog exempts your vehicle forever, no more fooling around with shady emissions shops.

If you look hard enough, there are legal loopholes for everything. Laws, mandates, regulations and government protocols are written by attorneys with legal loopholes and/ oversights written in, that allow everyday citizens to drive, smog, register and import any vehicle ever made on the face of this planet.

For the record, smog exemption, carb exemption, and BAR reffing are 3 completely different processes, these terms cannot be interchanged. BAR reffing, by far, is the most difficult and useless certification. Smog and Carb exemption are far better than a BAR ref'd swap because a BAR ref'd swap still must undergo strict emissions testing, while the smog/carb exempted vehicle doesn't. Also, Johnny Law can ref ticket a Bar ref'd car, but not a carb exempted car. The simple definition of a carb exempted car is a car that is exempted from all carb emissions mandates. Basically, local law enforcement can pop your hood, but, because the vehicle is both smog/carb exempt, it is therefore emissions compliant regardless of what turbo
k20, GSR or b18 engine swap you may have, a smog/carb exempted car can legally drive around with a fully built turbo GSR with no emissions controls, and never get a referee ticket.

You gotta pay $$$$$$$$ to play.......

Morgan went through this bullshit for a few years in the late seventies. I think on theirs it added about 400 pounds.
It works, and it's a nuisance.

I just wondering how hard it is to do? Cause once you have the sticker I would just set it up back for regular gas, this way when I get pulled over I can just show the cop the sticker.

I am pretty sure I could jimmy-rig a something to run propane cleanly. My buddy did it on his carb'd chevy 350 using some junkyard forklift parts.

interesting.

if i still drove a car that i had to worry about getting pulled over and reff'd for mods, id look into it. However, even with a catless x-pipe and spintech side exhaust, cops still dont even look my way, as compared to getting stalked like i was a mobile donut shop when i had the gst.

1FAST2G said:

I just wondering how hard it is to do? Cause once you have the sticker I would just set it up back for regular gas, this way when I get pulled over I can just show the cop the sticker.

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Sure, they're that stupid. They'll never smell the exhaust, or pop the hood.

Its not so much for the cops, it more for not having to smog my car. Its hard finding a hook up on test only smogs in CA. I never get pulled over. I have a stock exhaust with a cut out on the down pipe. I tried sreaching for this, but most of the stuff that came up were to convert carb. cars.

Interesting stuff.
but speaking of "Johnny Law" is there a thread or anything that outlines what you and the po-po can and cannot do when you're pulled over?
I took a few Administation of Justice classes and had all this information.. but that was a few semesters ago so I've since forgotten.
I think this would be important information, in California or otherwise.

In California, you have "implied consent". By using a California driver's license, you consent to being tested for blood alcohol content when an officer suspects you may be driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs. Refusal to submit to a test will suspend your license for a year.
By having a vehicle registered for operation on California highways, you agree to having that vehicle in legally operating condition. An officer has the authority to search for equipment violations if he has probably cause (in this case, pretty much meaning "I felt like it") to suspect that a violation is present. It is a lawful order for an officer to tell you to pop the hood for such search. Refusal to comply will probably get you arrested for failure to comply with a lawful instruction.

Do not try to talk publicly about "smog inspection hookups" on this board.

But if you get pulled over for speeding, no front plate or whatever, they can't pop your hood and check things out, right? Those things are not probable cause.
If my bodykit is scarping the ground we stand on that would be good reason, as would a coffee can muffler, correct?
Also, if an officer asks to search my vehicle I can decline, correct? I mean if I'm drunk and wreaking of weed then yes they will search it anyways.

PieEyedPiper said:

But if you get pulled over for speeding, no front plate or whatever, they can't pop your hood and check things out, right? Those things are not probable cause.

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No, they aren't to you and I, nor to most semi-trained chimps. However, if the cop tells the judge he had probable cause, what do you suppose the judge is going to allow? Now, if we had the resources to run this kind of thing up to the Supreme Court, perhaps we could get it corrected.

If my bodykit is scarping the ground we stand on that would be good reason, as would a coffee can muffler, correct?

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Maybe. Probably. No way to know, ahead of time.

Also, if an officer asks to search my vehicle I can decline, correct? I mean if I'm drunk and wreaking of weed then yes they will search it anyways.

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Searching for contraband and searching to assure equipment compliance are two different fields. Now, if he were to find contraband during an equipment check, you're screwed.
If you refuse to open the hood when ordered to by an officer, you will probably get arrested and the car will be impounded. As explained above, it qualifies as a lawful order.

So this thread seems to have gone a bit off topic, but since we're now talking about what an officer can and cannot do related to searching a vehicle... here's something I've been wondering.

Newer cars nowadays seem have a bunch of plastic engine dress-up pieces which usually cover almost everything under the hood. They need to be removed in order to actually do any sort of work under the hood. What if you're in a newer vehicle and all mods are tucked away under said engine dress-up pieces? Can they expect you to remove them on the side of the road to see what's underneath? Continuing on that thought, what If one were to make similar engine dress-up pieces for our cars. Obviously they would be aftermarket and considered a "modification", but would you be expected to have to remove them on the side of the road so that an officer could see what's going on underneath. I thought about that after having seen the AWD HKS 4G Eclipse which has something similar done to it where the only thing you can really see is the engine in that car. Everything else is covered... Not that I really have anything to hide. I've just wondered.

Defiant said:

No, they aren't to you and I, nor to most semi-trained chimps. However, if the cop tells the judge he had probable cause, what do you suppose the judge is going to allow? Now, if we had the resources to run this kind of thing up to the Supreme Court, perhaps we could get it corrected. Maybe. Probably. No way to know, ahead of time. Searching for contraband and searching to assure equipment compliance are two different fields. Now, if he were to find contraband during an equipment check, you're screwed.
If you refuse to open the hood when ordered to by an officer, you will probably get arrested and the car will be impounded. As explained above, it qualifies as a lawful order.

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I just think it is important for eveyrone to know their rights in any situation dealing with the police. It's nice to just all out trust an officer that what he is doing is legal, but that is not always the case and knowing what is and is not correct can benefit everyone.

I wish I took better notes.

Module Unknown said:

what If one were to make similar engine dress-up pieces for our cars.

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It would probably melt.

Legal Loop-holes are the way people like you and me, can fight back against incompetent law enforcement officials and out dated retarded laws like:

-Alaska:
It is illegal to push a live moose out of a moving airplane.

- Indiana:
Bathing is prohibited during the winter.

- Florida:
Any form of sexual contact other than missionary position is a misdomeanor.
(This STILL IS A LAW, that is being enforced. Such a case is when a couples house was raided by police and the police charged them with this ludacris offense.)

- Kentucky:
It is illegal to transport an ice cream cone in your pocket.



I could go on, but you get my point.

I'm so glad I live in a state with lax emissions laws. I'm all for the enviroment and everything, within reason...I won't be hunting manbearpig or anything, but sometimes this emissions stuff just kills me. It's almost like if you live in California, you give up all rights to tune car's and have fun. They don't even put your car on a dyno here for emissios if you have AWD. They just stick a sniffer in the exhaust and check the ol gas cap for leaks, make sure you have a cat, and that's about it. Go home, swap out to a cat delete if your going to the track, and no drama from jonny law. The only thing you'll get is a noise violation..and those are reserved for b16A honda's with no mufflers. After the car is 25 years old, you don't even have to get emissions anymore...and you can get a classic car tag. I'm waiting for the day that California test's your horn to make sure it's not using too much voltage and adversley efecting idle...leading to catostrophic glacier melting.

If you really want your car to be an alternative fuel vehicle why not just do the E85 conversion and keep it there? It gives you higher octane, better turbo performance and it is green. It's a win-win situation if you ask me. There are numerous thread on it here if you search.

I was watching Extreme 4x4 today on Spike and while they said they were going to be using propane setup instead of regular gas in the truck they were building. The host said it was like 110 octane gas and burned cleaner. I really never knew you could even substitute the two.

Ignition and Fuel have to be remapped, along with the addition of special injector/carb setups and vaporizers.

Many Caterpillar LP lift trucks use a Mitsubishi engine labeled 4g63. If you were nuts, I am sure it would be an easy swap.

You can run propane injection instead of straight propane. Its quire common on diesels

is it any better? What would be the pro's and cons for those of you who know about it?

All The Propane Vehicles I've Ever Driven Have Been Lazy Dogs That Will Not Start In The Winter.

Pros: high octane rating
Cons: releases less energy when burned than gasoline

I have been thinking about running a 4g63t on propane as a primary fuel and I was wondering if there is anyway to control spark without the ecu? Maybe a distributor that will bolt on or something? The fuel system has already been figured out, but I dont know for sure how to control timing.

Hmmm.....maybe adapt a 1.8l distributor somehow?