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Holset HX-35 Oiling

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Mike1992

Mike1992

15+ Year Contributor
3,338
26
Jul 19, 2003
Springfield, Missouri
I currently have my s16g plumbed off the oil filter housing receiving a good 100-120 psi of oil pressure in the higher rpm's threw a -4 ss line. I would like to use my current configuration on my Holset HX-35, but I don't wanna blow out the seals. My local performance shop says only ball bearing turbo's need a restrictor. What are your opinions?
 
We fed my friend's HX-35 off the block just after the oil pump. I don't know if that was 100-120psi, but it was definately high pressure. He didn't have any problems.
 
He's had it on there about 6 months so far. Everything was researched out first, its their shop car so I don't think they want to be blowing turbos right away. From he told me, the correct sized feed line is what matters, the pressure isn't nearly as much of an issue as getting the volume right.

This is on an LS VTEC btw, not a 4G63. I don't know how the oil pressures compare but I imagine they can't be that far off. The VTEC change over runs off oil pressure so it must be up there. I've never had a gauge on a Honda though.
 
Mike1992 said:
I currently have my s16g plumbed off the oil filter housing receiving a good 100-120 psi of oil pressure in the higher rpm's threw a -4 ss line. I would like to use my current configuration on my Holset HX-35, but I don't wanna blow out the seals. My local performance shop says only ball bearing turbo's need a restrictor. What are your opinions?
Click to expand...

You need a restrictor. Holset specs 50 or 60 max psi if I remeber corectly. My hx35 only lasted about a month with out it. I bought one from one of the vendors on this forum. I don't remember which one, he is in one of the long holset threads.
 
Mike1992 said:
Fittings such as these?

http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=18920&cat=1007&page=1

http://slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=2287&

I already have a -4 that threads into the turbo. I would like to weld it closed and drill a smaller hole in it such as the above to avoid spending $20+ What size hole would you recommend?
Click to expand...

The one I got was different, it looked like it came blocked and then had a hole drilled in it. I got it from joeracer321, its discussed in this thread starting at post #255. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1819736#post1819736
 
Thanks, I'll give him a call tomorrow. He recommends a .080-.085 orifice. My micrometer's battery is dead, but If I can get it welded closed and drill a hole in my already purchased brass fitting I'm golden. Thanks alot
 
I feed oil from my oil filter housing to my Holset via a -6 line. We just welded a small nut (tiny one) onto the steel fitting that goes into the fuel filter housing. We then ground it down to look prettier and to eliminate any slag. Holset seems to love it.

Not sure why anyone would go to all the trouble to put an adapter fitting onto a lathe just for this little part. To each his own I guess.
 
DJpHGotBanned said:
Not sure why anyone would go to all the trouble to put an adapter fitting onto a lathe just for this little part. To each his own I guess.
Click to expand...

The nice thing about using the nitrous jet is that it makes it really easy to swap out different sizes to "Tune" your oil pressure for the best spool. I have seen as much as 300rpm quicker spool by tuning the oil pressure. (This was done with an oil pressure guage right at the turbo.
 
I need to know what size jet/restrictor to use for my holset hx-35. I am going to get oil from the filter housing.
 
ball bearing turbo's dont like high oil pressure at all. use a feed from the head WITH a restrictor or FPs in-line oil filter. FP has tested their FP30 series DBB turbos on oil pressure as low as 10psi without any problems.
 
Holset does not manufacture ball bearing center sections. That will kill a hoslet in short order.

The OP's local shop is wrong considering his b-shafts are removed.

Straight from the holset hx repair manual .pdf:

8. Normal oil temperature is 95+/-5°C (203+/-9° F). It should not exceed 120°C (248°F) under any operating condition.
9. Any pre-lube oil must be clean and meet the minimum CD classification.
10. The orientation of turbine housing, bearing housing and compressor cover is fixed according to application. During installation, do not attempt to rotate these components. Inclined turbocharger installation is not recommended. If an installed angle is necessary, oil inlet centreline must be +/- 10 degrees from vertical and rotor centreline +/- 5 degrees from horizontal.
11. Holset permits oil return pipes to decline at an overall angle of not less than 30 degrees below horizontal.All turbocharger applications require a pipe of internal diameter greater than 19 mm which has integrated connectors. To ensure oil returns into the engine under all operating conditions, the return connection into the engine sump must not be submerged and the outlet flange of the turbocharger must be 50 mm above the maximum oil level of the engine sump pan. Crankcase pressure should be limited ideally to 0.8 kPa (0.12 lbf/in2) but 1.4 kPa (0.20 lbf/in2) can be accepted by reference to Holset.
12. Oil pressure of 150 kPa (20 lbf/in2) must show at the oil inlet within 3 - 4 seconds of engine firing to prevent damage to turbocharger bearing system. A flexible supply pipe is recommended.
13. The minimum oil pressure when the engine is on load must be 210 kPa (30 lbf/in2). Maximum permissible operating pressure is 500 kPa (72 lbf/in2) although 600 kPa (88 lbf/in2) is permitted during cold start up. Under idling conditions pressure should not fall below 70 kPa (10 lbf/in2).
14. Recommended oil flows for the turbochargers are 2 litre/min at idle and 3 litre/min above maximum torque speed.​

A 4g63 with balance shafts and oil squirters can show far below 10psi at the head during warm idle. And under 30psi at full load operation. Mine does. Though constucted with journal bearings, MHI turbos are designed to operate at very low oil pressures. That is why the feed is referenced from the head.

A 4g63 with balance shafts and oil squirters should do fine with a -3 feed line from the filter housing. . . If running no B shafts, a restrictor neccesary to run any journal bearing t-netics/garrett will be fine for a holset. I don't know what restrictor that may be. I just know that garret journal bearing turbos and holset turbos require very similar oil pressure.
 
Good info, thank you. Can anybody recommend the actual hardware that is needed and a place I can buy it from?

By the way I have no balance shafts and no oil squirters (n/t block).
 
dsm-onster said:
Holset does not manufacture ball bearing center sections. That will kill a hoslet in short order.

The OP's local shop is wrong considering his b-shafts are removed.

Straight from the holset hx repair manual .pdf:

8. Normal oil temperature is 95+/-5°C (203+/-9° F). It should not exceed 120°C (248°F) under any operating condition.
9. Any pre-lube oil must be clean and meet the minimum CD classification.
10. The orientation of turbine housing, bearing housing and compressor cover is fixed according to application. During installation, do not attempt to rotate these components. Inclined turbocharger installation is not recommended. If an installed angle is necessary, oil inlet centreline must be +/- 10 degrees from vertical and rotor centreline +/- 5 degrees from horizontal.
11. Holset permits oil return pipes to decline at an overall angle of not less than 30 degrees below horizontal.All turbocharger applications require a pipe of internal diameter greater than 19 mm which has integrated connectors. To ensure oil returns into the engine under all operating conditions, the return connection into the engine sump must not be submerged and the outlet flange of the turbocharger must be 50 mm above the maximum oil level of the engine sump pan. Crankcase pressure should be limited ideally to 0.8 kPa (0.12 lbf/in2) but 1.4 kPa (0.20 lbf/in2) can be accepted by reference to Holset.
12. Oil pressure of 150 kPa (20 lbf/in2) must show at the oil inlet within 3 - 4 seconds of engine firing to prevent damage to turbocharger bearing system. A flexible supply pipe is recommended.
13. The minimum oil pressure when the engine is on load must be 210 kPa (30 lbf/in2). Maximum permissible operating pressure is 500 kPa (72 lbf/in2) although 600 kPa (88 lbf/in2) is permitted during cold start up. Under idling conditions pressure should not fall below 70 kPa (10 lbf/in2).
14. Recommended oil flows for the turbochargers are 2 litre/min at idle and 3 litre/min above maximum torque speed.​

A 4g63 with balance shafts and oil squirters can show far below 10psi at the head during warm idle. And under 30psi at full load operation. Mine does. Though constucted with journal bearings, MHI turbos are designed to operate at very low oil pressures. That is why the feed is referenced from the head.

A 4g63 with balance shafts and oil squirters should do fine with a -3 feed line from the filter housing. . . If running no B shafts, a restrictor neccesary to run any journal bearing t-netics/garrett will be fine for a holset. I don't know what restrictor that may be. I just know that garret journal bearing turbos and holset turbos require very similar oil pressure.
Click to expand...
So then I can run my holset from the oil pump then?

Because I have no balance shafts. When I used to run my Garretts from the oil pump,they would blow smoke all over the place on a cold start in the winter(100psi).

Everytime that happened I had to chg or rebuild the turbo. It was a journal bearing so I hope what you are saying is correct.

I would not want this to blow like my garretts did when I had them at the oil pump.
The T3/T4 I have on there now has given me no problems being fed from the head.
 
Okay so I have an idea but I want to know what you guys think. Forced performance makes a -4an inline filter/restrictor with .100 orifice meant for journal bearing turbos. I know that people have recommended a .085 orifice for the hx-35 with no balance shafts but do you think this would work? I don't have the time to test out different sized orifices but I do want it to be close to what the turbo needs. Here is a link to the filter:

Forced Performance: FP -4 AN Inline Filter

Here is a link to my feed line:

The Turbo Trader

I can get the fittings to make it work locally, I just need to know if a .100 orifice will work.
 
ceedawg said:
So then I can run my holset from the oil pump then?

Because I have no balance shafts. When I used to run my Garretts from the oil pump,they would blow smoke all over the place on a cold start in the winter(100psi).

Everytime that happened I had to chg or rebuild the turbo. It was a journal bearing so I hope what you are saying is correct.

I would not want this to blow like my garretts did when I had them at the oil pump.
The T3/T4 I have on there now has given me no problems being fed from the head.
Click to expand...

No, read my post . . .

Just joking ;). You have to have an oil restrictor if you have b shafts removed. I mentioned that journal bearing holsets need similar oil pressure as journal bearing garretts/t-netics.

Do you get over 100 psi on cold starts and still run balance shafts and oil squirters? I've run my 60-1 t-netics with no ill effect straight off of the oil filter housing with a -3 an supply line. I've never seen over 70 psi at the oil filter housing with a stock block on a cold start in december. I admit that I've never worked with a block/oil-pump with less than 100k miles.
 
dsm-onster said:
No, read my post . . .

Just joking ;). You have to have an oil restrictor if you have b shafts removed. I mentioned that journal bearing holsets need similar oil pressure as journal bearing garretts/t-netics.

Do you get over 100 psi on cold starts and still run balance shafts and oil squirters? I've run my 60-1 t-netics with no ill effect straight off of the oil filter housing with a -3 an supply line. I've never seen over 70 psi at the oil filter housing with a stock block on a cold start in december. I admit that I've never worked with a block/oil-pump with less than 100k miles.
Click to expand...
I have NO balance shafts and I do get 100psi on a cold start. I used to blow the Garretts up left and right when I figured out running them at the oilpump was the cause of my turbo failure. That's when I learned that when the balance shafts come out,the pressure goes up ridiculously ,especially on cold starts.


If I can use the Holset on the oil pump,and I'm advised to use a restrictor,I certainly will. I know that right now with the garret getting oil from the head, in the summer I believe the pressure went down below 5psi when the motor was warm. I have had no problems.:thumb:If the Holset will be different just tell me exactly where to feed it from is what I basically need to know and I'm good.


Bottom line ,sounds like it won't be good to feed the holset from the head,with or without balance shafts in the motor.:confused:
 
My holset has over 20,000miles. 5,000miles of that were from my car. Zero play. Nice spool up. That being said, I did something simple. I took a steel fitting, one end into the turbo oil inlet, one end to the turbo feed hose. Prior to installation, that fitting was welded shut. Afterward, it was drilled out to size. I believe I used the smallest drill bit in my drill bit kit (I honestly don't remeber the size). It was a very tiny hole, but so far, so good.
 
So I'm getting the impression that the .100 orifice is probably good. I like the idea of using the filter as well as restrictor in one package but for 70 bucks its kind of a rip. I might just weld a fitting shut and machine the orifice at work or rig up something else that will work. Is the oil from the filter housing not filtered yet?
 
TimG said:
My holset has over 20,000miles. 5,000miles of that were from my car. Zero play. Nice spool up. That being said, I did something simple. I took a steel fitting, one end into the turbo oil inlet, one end to the turbo feed hose. Prior to installation, that fitting was welded shut. Afterward, it was drilled out to size. I believe I used the smallest drill bit in my drill bit kit (I honestly don't remeber the size). It was a very tiny hole, but so far, so good.
Click to expand...
Are we to assume your turbo is being fed from the oil pump then? You don't clearly say!:confused:
 
No balance shafts. No oil squirteres either. I have an in-cockpit electrical gauge which read through the roof until I ported my oil filter housing piston relief hole. Now I see about 20psi at idle (1250rpm) and it maxes out at about 80psi at redline (8000rpm).

Yes, the turbo is being fed from the clean side of the oil filter housing.
 
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