I am in possess of updating my car from FPBT28 so I was wondering one thing, with these mods what kind of WHP output should I expect with proper tuning done?

It is kind of a stupid question but I just want to know so I might change something on this list before updating to reach my goal of 350+WHP
I already have all exhaust parts listed and FMIC with piping installed + intake

Stock MAS with Injen intake
32” FMIC
2.5” Custom welded FMIC piping
SSQV BOV
Ported Evo III 16G
Ported Tubular style exhaust manifold
Ported 2.5” O2 Censor housing
2.5” DP
3” CAT Back
255 LP FP
Full Throttle FPR
Denso 660CC
DSMLink or LC1 WBO2, with MAFT G2(or SAFC2) + Logger

PS: I will be running this car on 98 Octane at all times

get some cams
You dont need no damn tubular exhuast manifold. the 2g manifold has gone into the 9s

NewB2dsm said:

get some cams
You dont need no damn tubular exhuast manifold. the 2g manifold has gone into the 9s

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It comes with the turbo so i dont mind

If you get some cams and are willing to run mid 20's for psi, 350 will be reachable, but i would defintly think about getting a new clutch etc if you havent already. Also if you do get denso 660's they probably flow closer to 700cc since they are denso and that may be difficult to control with just a safc2. O yeah its kinda a given, but pickup some adjustbale cam gears too.

bob123131 said:

If you get some cams and are willing to run mid 20's for psi, 350 will be reachable, but i would defintly think about getting a new clutch etc if you havent already. Also if you do get denso 660's they probably flow closer to 700cc since they are denso and that may be difficult to control with just a safc2. O yeah its kinda a given, but make sure you get adjustbale cam gears too.

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Please disregard the last sentance in this post untill he says, WHY yo uneed adjustable came gears. Only a few sets of cams really need to be degreed to make them work correctly, web being one of them. So if you stick with HKS, comp, FP cams you can install them straight up and be fine

So cams are absolutely necessary? I was thinking going with DSM link but with this kind of setup only 350 WHP? And I do have ACT 2600 Clutch with Forenza Lightened flywheel and coil over Tokiko suspension

Prodigyman said:

So cams are absolutely necessary? I was thinking going with DSM link but with this kind of setup only 350 WHP? And I do have ACT 2600 Clutch with Forenza Lightened flywheel and coil over Tokiko suspension

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I wouldnt say they are necissary but almost. Lets put it this way, on my small 16g at 25psi on 110. My comp 100s gave me ~35awhp over stock ones. Went from 305awhp to 338awhp, weather could have played some so lets say 30awhp. That is alot of power from just cams IMO. So i would say they are almost absolutly necissary. But hold of on them if you dont have the money and find a good deal.

i run 680's on an afc and those are too big for an evo3 imo...i'm at 20psi...i have fp2 cams

i think you would be better off with smaller injectors, cams, and 22+ psi to make 350whp...your gonna need a good tune as well. may wanna think about another turbo to allow for growth or flexibility...20g or 50 trims...just a suggestion

New i never said he had to get them i suggested it and yes hks and others doent need them but it doesnt hurt and they are nice to have if you can tune with a dyno.Plus you can pick some up for 100 dollars. 350 whp may be diffiult to reach without cams, but you cna always give it a try and see.

I would highly recomend a good tune. When bolting on parts it is good idea to make sure they are working together properly.

LRS95TSI said:

i run 680's on an afc and those are too big for an evo3 imo...i'm at 20psi...i have fp2 cams

i think you would be better off with smaller injectors, cams, and 22+ psi to make 350whp...your gonna need a good tune as well. may wanna think about another turbo to allow for growth or flexibility...20g or 50 trims...just a suggestion

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Smaller injectors are not going to hack it. My 550's are over 90% duty cycle at 20 psi with an EVOIII 16G, at stock fuel pressure.

I really don't understand these threads about making 350 whp on 16g turbos even if it's the Evo III. I know you can make up to 400whp on one but why bother? Put in a 50 trim or bigger and keep the boost down if you only want 350. I know that the Evo III 16g spools up very fast which makes it "streetable" but most people are never satisfied with those and end up going bigger anyway. JUST WONDERING

A well tuned 16g especially on 98 octane will rock for the street. I should know as I've had 14bs to 50 trims. And now for my street car, I ended on a e16g. Plently of pull for the street to impress people but also plenty of manners to stay civil.

I would stay away from tubular on a daily driven setup as they are not as strong as cast and are prone to cracking/breaking. Also, if you are running stock MAF, how are you also going to run a MAFT? With DSMLink you will also not need a logger. You will need some aggressive tuning to reach 350hp, so go with the Link but think about bigger injectors. I also don't know what a full throttle FPR is, but make sure it's adjustable. Camwise, there's no need for them now. It's not a big deal to decide you want them later and drop 'em in.

i say you never hit 350whp, why struggle so much with trying to hit it....get a bigger turbo that will semi-easily hit it then you can learn more from tuning and what not and maybe get a little more than what you expect...it's always easier to turn down the boost and lower ## afr's then to increase em both.

Slow99x said:

I really don't understand these threads about making 350 whp on 16g turbos even if it's the Evo III. I know you can make up to 400whp on one but why bother? Put in a 50 trim or bigger and keep the boost down if you only want 350. I know that the Evo III 16g spools up very fast which makes it "streetable" but most people are never satisfied with those and end up going bigger anyway. JUST WONDERING

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Have you ever heard of challenging yourself?

No_Skillz said:

I would stay away from tubular on a daily driven setup as they are not as strong as cast and are prone to cracking/breaking.

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I agree:

http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245566post#20

No_Skillz said:

Camwise, there's no need for them now. It's not a big deal to decide you want them later and drop 'em in.

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Here is what Josh had to say very recently:


http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242309&page=3post#78

ShapeGSX said:

Yes, cams really do make sense with an Evo III 16G. They also make sense on Evos. It really wakes the car up a TON.

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EDIT: So just to clarify:

Prodigyman said:

So cams are absolutely necessary?

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Yes, upgraded cams are necessary. A combination of 264/264s, 264/272s, or 272/272s will do wonders for top-end performance.

Challenging myself to be slow? What the hell is the point? Hey, lets see how fast we can go on a small turbo when someone can slap on a large turbo with some not so great tuning and go just as fast if not faster! Look... I'm not ripping on this turbo because it really is a good turbo for those happy with about 300whp because it can do it easily. For people that want anything above, get something bigger because again it will do it easier than the Evo III 16g. Why struggle? Also, tubular manifolds are only prone to cracking if they are cheaply made or improperly supported for the weight of the turbo. Most of the quality tubular manifold manufacturers offer a lifetime warranty or at least one year.

Slow99x said:

Challenging myself to be slow? What the hell is the point? Hey, lets see how fast we can go on a small turbo when someone can slap on a large turbo with some not so great tuning and go just as fast if not faster! Look... I'm not ripping on this turbo because it really is a good turbo for those happy with about 300whp because it can do it easily. For people that want anything above, get something bigger because again it will do it easier than the Evo III 16g. Why struggle? Also, tubular manifolds are only prone to cracking if they are cheaply made or improperly supported for the weight of the turbo. Most of the quality tubular manifold manufacturers offer a lifetime warranty or at least one year.

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Why do you run the turbo that you run? Why not just go bigger, it would be easier to reach the same hp you have now. That can be said about pretty much everything you have on your car or anyone elses. Some people just dont want 100x excess of what it takes to do a job.

Slow99 why dont you stop nagging with posts and actually contribute to this. The point of this forum is to inform others and learn, not to come in on someone's question and say why dont you go bigger. Also 350whp can easily be done with a ported evo3 16g. You ask why not just go 50 trim. Here is why evo 3 16 g ported=550. 50 trim 700. 560cc denso injectors and safc 350. 720cc and dsmlink + eprom close to a 1000. Now yes i know you can run 50 trim with smaller injectors and an safc but liek you said why not go bigger. So you end up spending more on a wastegate too. An evo3 is faster spooling, cheaper, and no matter what is a huge step up from a t-25. So what do you care what everyone does. Also im not dissing on the 50 trim's and up i plan to go bigger soon, but being in school and not having a unlimited budget my evo3 16g and all bolt ons including cams and intake manifold, which i should be pushing close to 350 is more than enough for me right now. Right now since i havent put on my new manifodl and cams I see 18psi by 2900 rpms with full turbo wrap etc. Thats a huge difference from most non bb 50 trims.

Yeah and I always say, all this work to max out an EVO 16g... just wait til you get a bigger turbo and have all that other work done on it already!!! You'll just have so much fun with it from the start.

Hm, I don't really consider a Big T28 to big 16G an "upgrade". They flow almost the same. Sure, an EVO III is nominally more flow than a big 16G, but it is not much. When sites claim a turbo is "rated" at XXX hp, those are ideal figures if you maxed it out, perfectly tuned, and every supporting mod to squeeze the power out.

I'd go for a real upgrade, at least a bb 50 trim. Why struggle to make 350 when you can do it almost bolt on with a 50 trim? So you lose 300 rpm, B.F.D.!

DSMLoverFromUA said:

For those who are saying go 50 trim go FFFFF yourselfs. You people make about 350 whp with a turbo that supports 500 whp. So, please dont talk. In this world what counts is to make power and for those who are trying to make power from small packages is what counts because those people have brain unlike half of others who slap big turbos and run 12 with small turbo people so please stay quit. you have maid nowhere. i love this website but some asshole has to be a dick. For the person who has started this thread, listen to make that much power you defenatly dont need cams, you need to add wideband to your list. Put 650 injectors with 255 fuel pump and fuel regulater on it and control it with dsmlink with widebacn and you are all good to go to the dyno and let the professionals tune it because it is too dengorous to tune on the street. Considering you have he FMIC and Ex system with intake and the engine with trans is all in good running order. And yea you defenatly need clutch and may be tires. Thats it stop telling him about 50 trim if he is asking about EVO 16G you ####ing losers. Dont post.

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I love it. Perfectly demostrates the intelligence level of Evo 3 supporters.

Do PLEASE come back and post up when you make 350awhp with an Evo 3. I would LOVE to see it. Oh but it spools fast... puh lez, how much time does the tach see at 2900rpm when you're going fast? ZERO


Slo99x, you have my total support in what you're saying. And apparently a good majority of the forum has jumped onboard this 50 trim for 350hp wagon.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244613

The way I see it, why crawl through the window when you can walk through the front door?

MyBeatGSX said:

Do PLEASE come back and post up when you make 350awhp with an Evo 3. I would LOVE to see it.

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It should be rather easy to achieve with the use of water or methanol injection. Almost all the modifications you would need to run an Evo3 at 350HP would be needed to run a 50-trim at 350HP. The money saved by going with an Evo3 over the BB 50-trim would definitely be enough to buy a nice injection system. That way you can run the Evo3 to 350+ horsepower and still have it's quick spool. You also get the cleaning benefits of the water/meth injection, and it'll be there when you're ready to get a bigger turbo.

There's a thread on the DSMLink forums where 50-trim owners are complaining about low airflow while having the boost in the low-to-mid 20's. There's a quote in there from a guy running a Evo3:

"I'm not flowing 45lb/min yet with my 16g but I did log 41 lb/min @ 25psi and I think ~7250 rpm. That was with stock 2g cams, stock 2g manifold (lightly cleaned up), 2g head cleaned up by me, full 3" exhaust with cat, and stock unhacked 2g MAS."

To compare, the 50-trim owners were getting between 38 and 42 lbs/min, and some of these were with cams.

It would seem that the Evo3 16G and the 50-trim turbo are very similar, except that the 50-trim costs several hundred dollars more.

LRS95TSI said:

i say you never hit 350whp, why struggle so much with trying to hit it....get a bigger turbo that will semi-easily hit it then you can learn more from tuning and what not and maybe get a little more than what you expect...it's always easier to turn down the boost and lower ## afr's then to increase em both.

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Thats why i actually went with 50 trim SBR G50, new SBR Cast manifold with 38mm tail W/G rerouted to DP before electric cutout with MAFT Gen 2 and WBO2


And whenever I can afford good cams and DSM link i can hit something a lot higher without updating everything again