Trying to support my position that there is something wrong with my AF/X ECU. I had an 8500 redline for at least 5k miles (and I bought it used so it has more than that). The redline has reverted to, what appears to be, stock (7800). I have replaced or checked everything that I could think of that might make it cut out. I contacted Gary over at Howell and his position is that it is not the ECU. Only cel I have (and have had) is EGR. I have come across another ECU that has done this in 2 different cars. I suspect that there is some sort of break down in the ECU. I am not asking Gary to fix it for free or anything, I just want to get the redline back. But I don't want to send it back if he doesn't believe that there might be something wrong. In general, that doesn't work. I'm hoping that there are others out there who may have this problem so they can help support my position. Again I'm not looking for freebies, I just want to get it fixed.


ALSO, ON A BRIGHTER NOTE, I ran again at Lebanon with the 97 420a NA. NEW LOW:

14.757 with a 2.259 launch @ 93.83. Cool!


It looks like there is a pretty good possibility that I can have the fastest ever posted. There's hope for the NA guys!

MB

bullettdsm said:

ALSO, ON A BRIGHTER NOTE, I ran again at Lebanon with the 97 420a NA. NEW LOW:

14.757 with a 2.259 launch @ 93.83. Cool!


It looks like there is a pretty good possibility that I can have the fastest ever posted. There's hope for the NA guys!

MB

Click to expand...

Awesome

Cool, what supporting mods do you have... whats all done to your car?

Ha Ha! Look at you WhiteFwdsm. You got the best year; the 97. I love my AF/X ECU and it is made just for the 97. My 2 favorite mods were the AF/X UDP and the AF/X ECU.

I think my mod list is up to date. But I'll post one here anyway:

Inside:
JE 10.5
Crower 2 cams
Stainless valves
.020 off head
5 angle valve job
Personal port and polish (intake and exhaust)
MLS Head gasket
Of course, full rebuild on bearing etc. (stock)
Full float wrist pins

Outside:
AF/X pulley
AF/X ECU
Jeep 60 mm TB
Personal port and polish intake
1 adj. cam gear on intake side
E-bay Ram air intake
Catch can
E-bay 4-1 header (cleaned up with grinder)
"hi-flow cat"
2.5 exhaust
No power steering

Suspension;
tiens and adj KYB's (1.8 drop) in front
stock springs adj KYB in back

And a stage 4 Spec clutch.

Hey, BigRand, thanks again for your support and help as well. It is clearly the extra torque that I got in cam gear adjustment on the dyno that gave me that extra pop. The track was actually in not that great shape due to the rain.

MB

If you installed the ECU in another 97 and the rev limiter still remained at 7800 then there is an issue with the ECU. Request Gary Howell test and repair. This is the second case of a failure within a AF/X ECU. not the same problem mind you but another issue.

Terry

Yeah, Terry, I agree. I think we are both talking about Brian's old AF/X ECU that was another bad one. When I called and talked to Gary, he seemed a bit adamant about it not being the ECU. He said if it was there would be other cel's flashing and then he started talking about computer language that I am just plain ignorant of . Not that something like that would back me down but, if I send something to someone who does not believe there is a problem with it, generally they aren't going to try too hard to fix it. This is the reason that I was hoping I could find others that had that problem so I could approach Gary with a bit more evidence. Obviously, I will try again but it would be nice to have more evidence.

Thanks,
MB

Very nice numbers. If I was close to you I would offer my services to help...

By the By, wouldnt you want upgraded valve springs and retainers to be pushing over 7800 anyway...?

as long as none of the fctory springs have failed/broken, with stock cams you are safe to rev that high. I would be more concerned with the question "Am I making any more power at that point" I have never used an AF/X ECU so i cant comment on the altered torque/HP curves.

Bullitt, i was referring to Brians old ECU but that is now owned by casbon and his an output issue which i guess could happen to any ECU really.

Terry

Thanks for the kind words. I really appreciate it.

The spring situation is as such; I specifically did (or did not do) some things on this engine
for the reason of testing. Originally when I put in the AF/X ECU I ran my stock internals engine (about 140k) right on up to 8500 with no problem. Stock cams and springs. I believe that the stock springs have more than enough force to take the car consistantly up to 8500. I put about 4k on it this way. When I did the rebuild I used new stock springs with the crower 2's. I did upgrade the valves though. I believe that is necessary. My intention was to run this engine up to 8500 a bunch of times, Then get it onto the dyno to look for signs of float. I had no signs of float when I was running her but unfortunately, the ECU decided to take a different path.

It's my belief that these springs can put up with rpm's up to 8500 on a consistant basis (with a not so wild cam). If you go above that, you had better upgrade. I'm not afraid to lose an engine while testing theory. We used to build engines to blow up and then see what broke down. I don't believe that is the case here. I just hear that you need to upgrade from a lot of people who I believe are getting their info second hand or from pure theory. This way I have first hand experience.

MB

E-CLIPS97 said:

Very nice numbers. If I was close to you I would offer my services to help...

By the By, wouldnt you want upgraded valve springs and retainers to be pushing over 7800 anyway...?

Click to expand...

hang on i herd that the stock lifters crack past like 7300 rpms. did you run your stock lifters to 8500? thas awesome and congrats on that time very impressive!!

Thanks for the kind words.

Interesting that you should ask that. Yeah, I've "heard" a lot of things over time. Bottom line is that you've got to go with your gut sometimes. There is a lot of lawyer speak type arguements that are on the boards for and against various things. If you search you can often-times find legitimate sides of each arguement. What I do is take in both sides and make a decision based on the info plus my experience. Also, very important to consider the source; not necessarily the way the message comes across. I have seen Terry on the boards for at least a couple of years now. He can come across in writing as a bit "acerbic" at times. But make no mistake, he is a very well informed guy who I do take notice of when he writes (no brown nosing intended).

I write this just because you are relatively new to the site and it might help you as you search and learn. As for the lifters, I can't say that I have heard that, but I did specifically use stockers because I wanted to show that they could handle the load (which I believe they can). They did work fine on the stocker engine with the stock cams.

MB

bullettdsm said:

Trying to support my position that there is something wrong with my AF/X ECU. I had an 8500 redline for at least 5k miles (and I bought it used so it has more than that). The redline has reverted to, what appears to be, stock (7800). I have replaced or checked everything that I could think of that might make it cut out. I contacted Gary over at Howell and his position is that it is not the ECU. Only cel I have (and have had) is EGR. I have come across another ECU that has done this in 2 different cars. I suspect that there is some sort of break down in the ECU. I am not asking Gary to fix it for free or anything, I just want to get the redline back. But I don't want to send it back if he doesn't believe that there might be something wrong. In general, that doesn't work. I'm hoping that there are others out there who may have this problem so they can help support my position. Again I'm not looking for freebies, I just want to get it fixed.


ALSO, ON A BRIGHTER NOTE, I ran again at Lebanon with the 97 420a NA. NEW LOW:

14.757 with a 2.259 launch @ 93.83. Cool!


It looks like there is a pretty good possibility that I can have the fastest ever posted. There's hope for the NA guys!

MB

Click to expand...

I noticed your mod list had no cams! You will definetely benefit from cams. That is a very fast N/A DSM thats for sure. You can keep up with the turbo dsm's. My first ever run was a [email protected] with a 2G Turbo AWD DSM, so your numbers are really good. Maybe you should look into some weight reduction. I am just wondering why didn't you go with higher compression pistons with a N/A setup? IMO, I think 11 or even 12.5:1 compression pistons would of probably give you better results with proper tuning of course.

...I wonder if that guy even read the whole thread at all haha...bunch of posts just before his all talking about cams etc

Anywho, good chit MB

Good to hear from you, X. I trust the car is doing well NOW ? You see that Snoop has his hands full trying to find that "little" problem .

Ultimate, I guess the cams are kinda my fault. I wrote down Crower 2's under the assumption that everyone knew what they were (yeah, I know when you assume....). I made the appropriate edit.

As for weight reduction, I'm kind of making a statement with this car. I don't want to take out all the weight and make it a shell. This car is an example of a "daily driver" (which it is my daily) that you can put a few thousand into, have a relatively new car (engine and suspension) and it will go fast. I really suspect that if I went into full weight reduction, I would get into the 13's. Now, that being said, I do pop the seats out and take out the spare tire. That's the extent of my weight reduction (I gotta go on a diet too ).

As for higher comp; Our cars stock run 9.6:1. In researching various different sites there have been problems in tuning the 12.5:1's. I thought that something around 11 would be a good comp number to use for pump gas. So with the 10.5's and .020 off the head, I come close to 10.9:1 comp. This also allowed me the flexibility to put a stock head back on should there be a problem. With 12.5's you're stuck with what you got.

Because these cars are often times used as entry level vehicles (i.e. younger less experienced drivers), I wanted to make this a vehicle that they make go faster without the tuning problems that they would need to understand. That being said, now that I am at this point, I am considering going with MegaSquirt because it does interest me.

I appreciate the kind words Ultimate,

MB